Mad Dog 80
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SWA Point System?
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Answer (sort of)
As to your direct question:
No one knows except the folks who do the process. Is there a "point system"? It is probably semantics but I haven't heard it described that way but in reality each app is obviously "scored" based upon the total person concept as I have had it explained to me. All things are factor, total time, currency, PIC vs SIC, different quals, variety of aircraft, complexity of aircraft, type, etc. All of these will be "weighted" in some fashion & the computer will spit out the "best qualified" & those folks will get the call. Again it is only my opinion but it will make for a more difficult process of waiting & not knowing when one might get the call.
Until folks start getting called & posting their data there will be no intelligent way of knowing what "weight", "point" or any other way you wish to describe it is being used other than what has been used by other airlines in the past. I'm sure there are other variables in the process I haven't included & may have included factors that won't be weighted, the bottom line is the recipe will obviously be a closely guarded secret, as it should be. This gives SWA the ultimate flexibilty in deciding who they wish to interview. It may not always be from the top of the list either I would think. Picking folks with various background & experience level is one of the factors that is obvious in most new hire classes so for those who think they may not have more than the min quals out there, don't dispare, it never hurts to apply. Again no scientific or inside info, just one person's opinion.
As I have stated I don't know what criteria or what aspects of one's flying career make one "best qualified"....mine thoughts are only a guess:
1. Flying time Instructor time, PIC time, SIC (in order)
2. Jet time, turbine, piston (in order)
3. Complexity of aircraft, multi-engine, single engine
4. (much more iffy on this category) 121, 135, military (in no particular order), 99, flight instructor time
5. Number of quals/types; 737 & then other various ones (obviously the 737 type is no longer required but in terms of points it may or may not be a factor, I have nothing definitive on this but definite opinions on why I think it is important)
6. Clean record w/ FAA & legal authorities (again pretty iffy here)
Only one person's opinion, some things you don't have any control, others you do. Worry & work on the things you can impact, don't worry about the others, either SWA will be interested or they won't be. Some folks won't get calls for quite sometime but don't be discouraged....this is a marathon, not a sprint so be patient, diligent, thorough & perseverance will pay off for those who wish to stay in the process for the long haul.
Good luck,
As to your direct question:
No one knows except the folks who do the process. Is there a "point system"? It is probably semantics but I haven't heard it described that way but in reality each app is obviously "scored" based upon the total person concept as I have had it explained to me. All things are factor, total time, currency, PIC vs SIC, different quals, variety of aircraft, complexity of aircraft, type, etc. All of these will be "weighted" in some fashion & the computer will spit out the "best qualified" & those folks will get the call. Again it is only my opinion but it will make for a more difficult process of waiting & not knowing when one might get the call.
Until folks start getting called & posting their data there will be no intelligent way of knowing what "weight", "point" or any other way you wish to describe it is being used other than what has been used by other airlines in the past. I'm sure there are other variables in the process I haven't included & may have included factors that won't be weighted, the bottom line is the recipe will obviously be a closely guarded secret, as it should be. This gives SWA the ultimate flexibilty in deciding who they wish to interview. It may not always be from the top of the list either I would think. Picking folks with various background & experience level is one of the factors that is obvious in most new hire classes so for those who think they may not have more than the min quals out there, don't dispare, it never hurts to apply. Again no scientific or inside info, just one person's opinion.
As I have stated I don't know what criteria or what aspects of one's flying career make one "best qualified"....mine thoughts are only a guess:
1. Flying time Instructor time, PIC time, SIC (in order)
2. Jet time, turbine, piston (in order)
3. Complexity of aircraft, multi-engine, single engine
4. (much more iffy on this category) 121, 135, military (in no particular order), 99, flight instructor time
5. Number of quals/types; 737 & then other various ones (obviously the 737 type is no longer required but in terms of points it may or may not be a factor, I have nothing definitive on this but definite opinions on why I think it is important)
6. Clean record w/ FAA & legal authorities (again pretty iffy here)
Only one person's opinion, some things you don't have any control, others you do. Worry & work on the things you can impact, don't worry about the others, either SWA will be interested or they won't be. Some folks won't get calls for quite sometime but don't be discouraged....this is a marathon, not a sprint so be patient, diligent, thorough & perseverance will pay off for those who wish to stay in the process for the long haul.
Good luck,
Last edited:
SFR
Pilot Guy
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If this comes across rude to furloughed guys/gals, I am sorry, I do not intend that, but this is my personal opinion.
I think that if you really wanted to work for SWA you should have applied there before you got furloughed. Basically you are saying that you only want SWA because there is no place else to go. (Besides Airtorch & jetblue)
People like me have wanted to work for SWA since I was born, that is why I left Eage for ASA before 911 to get the PIC time. So you are telling me that a United/USAir/etc furlough should be hired before me. They probably made fun of SWA years ago!!! I guarantee it!!! (This does not represent every furloughed pilots position, just my example)
Shroth
I think that if you really wanted to work for SWA you should have applied there before you got furloughed. Basically you are saying that you only want SWA because there is no place else to go. (Besides Airtorch & jetblue)
People like me have wanted to work for SWA since I was born, that is why I left Eage for ASA before 911 to get the PIC time. So you are telling me that a United/USAir/etc furlough should be hired before me. They probably made fun of SWA years ago!!! I guarantee it!!! (This does not represent every furloughed pilots position, just my example)
Shroth
Mad Dog 80
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D'BackB2flyby
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Don't get to concerned about how to earn your point because from what I have been told SWA will have the capability of changing the weights for scoring everytime they do a computer search. One of the asst chiefs did say that it would be a very good idea for an applicant to update the application everyday after they flew so that the increased flight time would be in the application. As far as furloughed pilots as long as thy meet the currency requirement it should not be an issue.
SFR said:
gee shroth...is there a box on the app to state that SWA was where you wanted to work since you were born? LOL
yes, a furloughee who has UA/US/etc furlough should be hired before you with all other things being equal.
you don't think a type rated 737 UA pilot is more qualified than you with all other things being equal?
Spanky2
I obviously have no way of knowing for sure since I'm not involved in the process. Just my thoughts.
SWA has hired furloughed folks in the past & will continue to do so. To not do so now would be setting a new precedent, something I don't believe SWA is desiring to do. I have flown with many Capts who were furloughed at one time or another & know of FOs who have been hired within the last 4 years who were furloughs/voluntarily left also. There are obviously more furloughed folks now than in years past, it makes sense we will hire some but that we will also not select quite a few. The same will be able to be said of any other category of pilot (military, prior 135, 121, corporate, frieght, etc) simply because there are so many folks from all of these categories applying.
While folks who don't get selected after the Decision Board (DB) meets will have lots of questions on why they weren't hired, don't fall for the trap that MERELY because the person was a furloughed pilot or from any particular "group", this resulted in them not being selected. It will generally be for other reasons IMHO, interview, paperwork, FAA/legal, LORs, etc.
Surveys show that the number one turn-off to persons on a first date is to bring up one's old flame. Making your previous employer the primary topic/focus is an obvious foul. However, the topic will come up about your previous employer, just be prepared to discuss it & have your thoughts on why you are applying to SWA. Be honest with yourself & with the interviewers, answer the questions how you think they should be answered, not how you think the interviewers want them answered...reading other minds can be hazardous to your career! Being yourself is the key. If you were a jerk at your old airline, you'll probably come across as one now, if you were a good guy/gal, then it should come across that way also.
No selection process is perfect but the folks at SWA are working hard to improve the process & give EVERYONE who interviews a fair shake. Hope that helps, cheers,
I obviously have no way of knowing for sure since I'm not involved in the process. Just my thoughts.
SWA has hired furloughed folks in the past & will continue to do so. To not do so now would be setting a new precedent, something I don't believe SWA is desiring to do. I have flown with many Capts who were furloughed at one time or another & know of FOs who have been hired within the last 4 years who were furloughs/voluntarily left also. There are obviously more furloughed folks now than in years past, it makes sense we will hire some but that we will also not select quite a few. The same will be able to be said of any other category of pilot (military, prior 135, 121, corporate, frieght, etc) simply because there are so many folks from all of these categories applying.
While folks who don't get selected after the Decision Board (DB) meets will have lots of questions on why they weren't hired, don't fall for the trap that MERELY because the person was a furloughed pilot or from any particular "group", this resulted in them not being selected. It will generally be for other reasons IMHO, interview, paperwork, FAA/legal, LORs, etc.
Surveys show that the number one turn-off to persons on a first date is to bring up one's old flame. Making your previous employer the primary topic/focus is an obvious foul. However, the topic will come up about your previous employer, just be prepared to discuss it & have your thoughts on why you are applying to SWA. Be honest with yourself & with the interviewers, answer the questions how you think they should be answered, not how you think the interviewers want them answered...reading other minds can be hazardous to your career! Being yourself is the key. If you were a jerk at your old airline, you'll probably come across as one now, if you were a good guy/gal, then it should come across that way also.
No selection process is perfect but the folks at SWA are working hard to improve the process & give EVERYONE who interviews a fair shake. Hope that helps, cheers,
Aircraft Flown question
In the Aircraft Flown section they want to know the highest position held for each aircraft. In the pull-down menu there is a choice for Instructor Pilot and another for Evaluator Pilot. What is the definition of Evaluator Pilot? Is this like a Stan Checker/Check Airman (ie Instructor of instructors)
In the Aircraft Flown section they want to know the highest position held for each aircraft. In the pull-down menu there is a choice for Instructor Pilot and another for Evaluator Pilot. What is the definition of Evaluator Pilot? Is this like a Stan Checker/Check Airman (ie Instructor of instructors)
enigma
good ol boy
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Pilotbob3 said:
Bob, Unless SWA has changed it's criteria in the latest hiring revamp, I would say that they place a lot of weight on committment to SWA. In that sense, a pilot who acquired his own type rating specifically for the opportunity to interview with SWA IS more SWA qualified than someone who dreamed of flying whales for United, and only attempts to get on with SWA after getting furloughed by UAL.
regards,
enigma
Falconjet
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SFR, Consider this:
Perhaps some of those furloughed folks always wanted to fly for SWA since they were pups also, but couldn't swing the dough for the type rating or maybe even interviewed but weren't hired by SWA. Do you think that they should have priority over you because they applied way back when, but SWA turned them down, or they were hired somewhere else first?
The shoe is kind of on the other foot now, isn't it.
EVERYBODY who interviews at SWA is going to say that they ALWAYS wanted to fly for SWA and would give their first born to get an offer there. Welcome to the club.
Its good that you want to work at SWA and always have, but it doesn't make you any more QUALIFIED to work there, and I'm sure that when you do get hired that you will want to be flying with the best QUALIFIED pilots they could get, not just the first ones to apply.
I'll leave it in the capable hands of the People Department to decide who they think are the best QUALIFIED pilots to hire. You may want to tone down the aura of entitlement when you get your interview.
Best of luck to you.
FJ
Perhaps some of those furloughed folks always wanted to fly for SWA since they were pups also, but couldn't swing the dough for the type rating or maybe even interviewed but weren't hired by SWA. Do you think that they should have priority over you because they applied way back when, but SWA turned them down, or they were hired somewhere else first?
The shoe is kind of on the other foot now, isn't it.
EVERYBODY who interviews at SWA is going to say that they ALWAYS wanted to fly for SWA and would give their first born to get an offer there. Welcome to the club.
Its good that you want to work at SWA and always have, but it doesn't make you any more QUALIFIED to work there, and I'm sure that when you do get hired that you will want to be flying with the best QUALIFIED pilots they could get, not just the first ones to apply.
I'll leave it in the capable hands of the People Department to decide who they think are the best QUALIFIED pilots to hire. You may want to tone down the aura of entitlement when you get your interview.
Best of luck to you.
FJ
canyonblue
Everyone loves Southwest
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Re: Spanky2
I too have flown with a couple CA's that were furloughed from AA in the early '90s. Both were the type that belonged at SWA from the start. And both obviously decided to stay at SWA when they were called back. That seems to be the deciding factor for me. If you really want to switch Airlines then by all means apply today. If you just want somewhere to be before you get called back, leave that interview slot for someone who really want's to be at SWA. I wrote a LOR for a former CA of mine who is furloughed from United. He told me that even if he were called back he is done with that operation.
chase said:
I too have flown with a couple CA's that were furloughed from AA in the early '90s. Both were the type that belonged at SWA from the start. And both obviously decided to stay at SWA when they were called back. That seems to be the deciding factor for me. If you really want to switch Airlines then by all means apply today. If you just want somewhere to be before you get called back, leave that interview slot for someone who really want's to be at SWA. I wrote a LOR for a former CA of mine who is furloughed from United. He told me that even if he were called back he is done with that operation.
SFR
Pilot Guy
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Falconjet:
If SWA ever told me to give my first born for a job there, I would laugh in their face and walk out of the room. I hope everyone else would too.
You people act as if these companies are your direct path to success. Just remember all of those that got hired at UAL, DAL, etc back in 1999,2000... They too thought they were immortal. Now where are they.? I remember some of those folks getting the "you regional pilots suck" their last month at ASA before they went to DAL (and they were still regional pilots!!!). Their attitudes are 180 degrees different now!!
I have a more optimistic outlook for SWA!!!! for all of us!!
Another topic.....Qualified?? What does that mean???
Flight time??? With 20,000 hours and 747 type, you still can't get a free drink at Starbucks.
Personality, Sense of Humor, Morals, Motivational skills, etc are a lot more important than flight time!! Unfortunately there is no way to log that.
Good luck all, see you at SWA.
If SWA ever told me to give my first born for a job there, I would laugh in their face and walk out of the room. I hope everyone else would too.
You people act as if these companies are your direct path to success. Just remember all of those that got hired at UAL, DAL, etc back in 1999,2000... They too thought they were immortal. Now where are they.? I remember some of those folks getting the "you regional pilots suck" their last month at ASA before they went to DAL (and they were still regional pilots!!!). Their attitudes are 180 degrees different now!!
I have a more optimistic outlook for SWA!!!! for all of us!!
Another topic.....Qualified?? What does that mean???
Flight time??? With 20,000 hours and 747 type, you still can't get a free drink at Starbucks.
Personality, Sense of Humor, Morals, Motivational skills, etc are a lot more important than flight time!! Unfortunately there is no way to log that.
Good luck all, see you at SWA.
FearlessFreep
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This is the most ridiculous thread I have seen in a while.
Who really knows why any airline hires anyone?
The ludicrous ends that people go to in an attempt to outwit the "People Department" is amazing. They have their methods - your not going to be able to second guess them, nor should you even try.
Remember when everyone was applying at the other majors? You never knew if you would ever be called for an interview - you just kept trying. So just put your stuff in, follow the gouge & hope for the best.
When you go to the interview make sure that your right shoe is untied. One lace should be hanging off to the left and measure exactly 3.875" in length. The other should be draped across the arch and just touch the front part of the shoe. This one has to be approximately 4" long. The little plastic things on the end of the laces need to have small cracks around the diameter 3 in number , .25mm in length and equally distributed at 120 degree intervals. All this indicates that you can follow directions and tolerate something other than perfection. Note: make sure that it is not the left shoe.
I am toying with re-applying with the good ol' WN (for the third time). Will I get an interview? Who knows. Will I successfully accomplish an interview? Probably not. WN will probably ask me questions off the 8 year old intial application, after all that's what they did last time. When I get rejected again am I going to get upset? Nope. I am just doing my d*mnest to honestly & forthrightly acquire employment with a good company.
Do I truly, sincerely, humbly, desire employment with WN? Wholeheartedly yes. Do I want to get married to the company? Nope, a working relationship would be sufficent. If WN did hire me (highly unlikely) they will get a hard working, loyal, personable (with a sense of humour), optomistic and dedicated employee. What they won't get is a koolaid drinking brown nose.
Anyone who tries to tell me that they became a pilot so that they could work for WN is full of...
For those that get/got hired by WN good for you. Youv'e got the SWA stuff!
No rancor intended.
Good Luck To Us All!
Who really knows why any airline hires anyone?
The ludicrous ends that people go to in an attempt to outwit the "People Department" is amazing. They have their methods - your not going to be able to second guess them, nor should you even try.
Remember when everyone was applying at the other majors? You never knew if you would ever be called for an interview - you just kept trying. So just put your stuff in, follow the gouge & hope for the best.
When you go to the interview make sure that your right shoe is untied. One lace should be hanging off to the left and measure exactly 3.875" in length. The other should be draped across the arch and just touch the front part of the shoe. This one has to be approximately 4" long. The little plastic things on the end of the laces need to have small cracks around the diameter 3 in number , .25mm in length and equally distributed at 120 degree intervals. All this indicates that you can follow directions and tolerate something other than perfection. Note: make sure that it is not the left shoe.
I am toying with re-applying with the good ol' WN (for the third time). Will I get an interview? Who knows. Will I successfully accomplish an interview? Probably not. WN will probably ask me questions off the 8 year old intial application, after all that's what they did last time. When I get rejected again am I going to get upset? Nope. I am just doing my d*mnest to honestly & forthrightly acquire employment with a good company.
Do I truly, sincerely, humbly, desire employment with WN? Wholeheartedly yes. Do I want to get married to the company? Nope, a working relationship would be sufficent. If WN did hire me (highly unlikely) they will get a hard working, loyal, personable (with a sense of humour), optomistic and dedicated employee. What they won't get is a koolaid drinking brown nose.
Anyone who tries to tell me that they became a pilot so that they could work for WN is full of...
For those that get/got hired by WN good for you. Youv'e got the SWA stuff!
No rancor intended.
Good Luck To Us All!
Last edited:
Falconjet
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No offense
No offense SFR, but maybe you read part of my post too literally. I simply mean to say that just about everyone will try to convince SWA that they have wanted to work for them since they were born. A little commitment and loyalty go a long way I'm sure toward making the recruiter feel that you would fit in.
What I didn't say is that the furloughed pilot is more "qualified" than you, all I said was that just because you applied first doesn't make YOU more qualified than those who apply behind you.
Again, I simply feel that it is the company's perogative to decide what their minimums (thread creep) are and who THEY think is best qualified for their positions, and interview them in the order they deem best.
It is admirable that you have made SWA a lifelong career objective and I'm sure that they will appreciate hearing that. I just don't think it should make you feel that you deserve the chance 'more' than a furloughee just because you applied earlier.
Just my humble and ill-informed opinion. No offense meant.
Good Luck
FJ
No offense SFR, but maybe you read part of my post too literally. I simply mean to say that just about everyone will try to convince SWA that they have wanted to work for them since they were born. A little commitment and loyalty go a long way I'm sure toward making the recruiter feel that you would fit in.
What I didn't say is that the furloughed pilot is more "qualified" than you, all I said was that just because you applied first doesn't make YOU more qualified than those who apply behind you.
Again, I simply feel that it is the company's perogative to decide what their minimums (thread creep) are and who THEY think is best qualified for their positions, and interview them in the order they deem best.
It is admirable that you have made SWA a lifelong career objective and I'm sure that they will appreciate hearing that. I just don't think it should make you feel that you deserve the chance 'more' than a furloughee just because you applied earlier.
Just my humble and ill-informed opinion. No offense meant.
Good Luck
FJ
llowwelll
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Just wanted to offer the info I have on the original question regarding the point system. I was at HPA last month getting my type rating. I had heard the rumors about a point system, so I specifically asked the SWA rep the question. I asked if interview selectees will be decided in a manner similar to the one JetBlue uses...screened and scored by computer. The short answer was a definitive "no". SWA hires for character and trains for skill. The most important attributes SWA looks for are those that match up with the Southwest spirit. Attributes like that are not always able to be accurately assessed by a points system.
spanky2
For God, Family, Country
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SFR,
Dude...you are not at a SWA interview..."wanted to work there since I was born." Do you also live on a diet consisting of peanuts, Wild Turkey, and cigarettes ? Do you have a cardboard model of Herb in your room? Did you also paint your car to look like a killer whale ? Can you REALLY guarantee that pilots hired by UAL, DAL, etc laugh at SWA ? You do not know their reasons...and OBTW qualifications are the basis of hiring, not the whole picture mind you, but the baseline. Even though you have wanted to fly for SWA since the moment of Mr Sperm meeting Ms Egg and your favorite book is "Nuts", you still have to have the basics and "fit" in their work force. You may not fit. PD folks determine that. If a furloughed pilots is willing to resign from previous employer and is more qualified then that pilot may get hired before you. Sorry. They hire using the "past performance predicts future performance" concept. I happen to have been thru the SWA interview process 4 years ago, passed, and offerred a job. Wonderful experience, and I actually enjoyed the interaction with the 3 interviewers. Cindy was the PD contact in those days and I wrote her a letter thanking her SWA's interest in me but I chose another path for personal reasons. Hard decision.
Like your eagerness, though. My long rsponse is meant to be fun ribbing...comes from 20+ years of mil;itary flying as a PIC in fighters. Will look for you in "C" concourse...you would be the ASA pilot with SWA stickers on your kit bag.
Dude...you are not at a SWA interview..."wanted to work there since I was born." Do you also live on a diet consisting of peanuts, Wild Turkey, and cigarettes ? Do you have a cardboard model of Herb in your room? Did you also paint your car to look like a killer whale ? Can you REALLY guarantee that pilots hired by UAL, DAL, etc laugh at SWA ? You do not know their reasons...and OBTW qualifications are the basis of hiring, not the whole picture mind you, but the baseline. Even though you have wanted to fly for SWA since the moment of Mr Sperm meeting Ms Egg and your favorite book is "Nuts", you still have to have the basics and "fit" in their work force. You may not fit. PD folks determine that. If a furloughed pilots is willing to resign from previous employer and is more qualified then that pilot may get hired before you. Sorry. They hire using the "past performance predicts future performance" concept. I happen to have been thru the SWA interview process 4 years ago, passed, and offerred a job. Wonderful experience, and I actually enjoyed the interaction with the 3 interviewers. Cindy was the PD contact in those days and I wrote her a letter thanking her SWA's interest in me but I chose another path for personal reasons. Hard decision.
Like your eagerness, though. My long rsponse is meant to be fun ribbing...comes from 20+ years of mil;itary flying as a PIC in fighters. Will look for you in "C" concourse...you would be the ASA pilot with SWA stickers on your kit bag.
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