SWA Jumpseat?

[CesnaCaptn]

How many of your airplanes have one flightdeck jumpseat?

 

[freightdogfred]

One question that's semi-related for the SWA folks; it's been a yr or so since I last jumped on you (and every time it was out of SFO), and I recall that more often than not it went something like this with the gate agent:
Me: "Hi- I'm a pilot with Virgin America and would like to hitch a ride via our jumpseat agreement please. I have already called an listed myself".

Agent: "Okay- it looks pretty tight, but we'll call you near departure time (doesn't run me in CASS and gives me a slip that indicates 'cabin only')."

Me: "Well, if it's that tight-should you maybe run me in CASS..just in case?"

Agent: "We only do that if you'll be sitting in the cockpit"

--They are about to close the doors and haven't called me yet; so I query. Response: "(panicked/annoyed) Oh--you need to be in the cockpit; run down there!"
So I politely remind (same person) that they never ran me in CASS. They basically tell me that they may now go late because of this (as though it's my fault).
One common denominator is that in SFO it seemed to be the same guy like 90% of the time- dark hair, thin, goatee- I think his name may be Eric.

I guess my question is; Is this truly policy (not vetting a pilot in CASS if you'll be trying to give him an open seat 1st..& cockpit = last resort)? If so, I guess I don't understand it..it seems like it leads to an unnecessary panic & aggravation (on part of agent and jumpseater alike) more often than not.

BTW-- I need to say that all the crews have been great and most of the time the agents are very friendly--just this strange recurring thing about not running pilots in CASS when they should.

Thx

Don't question the thin man with a goatee. Don't question anything related to unicorns and stardust, they have their own way of doing things and it doesn't make a lot of sense to us mere mortals. He's got a reason for wanting that flight to go out late, you just don't have the big picture. Might be a dust storm in Amarillo or something

 

[Lear70]

How many of your airplanes have one flightdeck jumpseat?

That's a good question.

They've taken some of our non-GECAS hulls across, and I haven't heard if they've retrofitted them with the 2nd jumpseat or not? Our non-GECAS planes only had one jumpseat.

Otherwise, as far as I know, ALL SWA 737's had two jumpseats.

 

[StopNTSing]

Can't give you exact numbers, but...

...if it's a -500 there's two jumpseats.

...if it's a -300 with winglets, there's only a very few that don't have the second jumpseat.

...if it's a -300 without winglets, there is probably a 50% chance it has only one jumpseat. Many of the hand-me-downs we've picked up from other airlines over the years did not have the 2nd jumpseat, but their numbers are dwindling as they get retired this year and next.

...if it's a -700, there's only a few that don't have the second jumpseat, but their numbers are increasing slightly because as Lear70 mentioned, many of the ATN -700s did not have the 2nd jumpseat....and the company is NOT adding it as part of the conversion program (as if I needed another reason to hate this whole deal!)

...if it's an -800 there's two jumpseats.

Big picture, your chances of getting a plane with two jumpseats are excellent. Out of an almost 700 aircraft fleet, I'd estimate we're only talking about maybe 20 airplanes without the second jumpseat.

 

[FIREMAN]

The company can put a company pilot up front if needed (DH pilot


They can make a DH ride the jump seat?

 

[redflyer65]

Deleted. Answered already.

 

[Lear70]

One question that's semi-related for the SWA folks; it's been a yr or so since I last jumped on you (and every time it was out of SFO), and I recall that more often than not it went something like this with the gate agent:
Me: "Hi- I'm a pilot with Virgin America and would like to hitch a ride via our jumpseat agreement please. I have already called an listed myself".

Agent: "Okay- it looks pretty tight, but we'll call you near departure time (doesn't run me in CASS and gives me a slip that indicates 'cabin only')."

Me: "Well, if it's that tight-should you maybe run me in CASS..just in case?"

Agent: "We only do that if you'll be sitting in the cockpit"

--They are about to close the doors and haven't called me yet; so I query. Response: "(panicked/annoyed) Oh--you need to be in the cockpit; run down there!"
So I politely remind (same person) that they never ran me in CASS. They basically tell me that they may now go late because of this (as though it's my fault).
One common denominator is that in SFO it seemed to be the same guy like 90% of the time- dark hair, thin, goatee- I think his name may be Eric.

I guess my question is; Is this truly policy (not vetting a pilot in CASS if you'll be trying to give him an open seat 1st..& cockpit = last resort)? If so, I guess I don't understand it..it seems like it leads to an unnecessary panic & aggravation (on part of agent and jumpseater alike) more often than not.

BTW-- I need to say that all the crews have been great and most of the time the agents are very friendly--just this strange recurring thing about not running pilots in CASS when they should.

Thx

That station is a freaking MESS. Several of our stations have transitioned ground ops over to SWA, and most of them are pretty good (some are friendlier than others, but that's to be expected), but SFO has transitioned and it's a disaster.

Had to write an ASAP report the other day after the gate agent rushed to get us off the gate 10 minutes early, then the ground crew re-connected our steering bypass pin while the tow bar was still connected and canted off to the left about 70 degrees after COMPLETELY non-standard phraseology during a push, couldn't even understand the woman operating the tug, she mumbled and had a bad accent I couldn't identify (in large part because she was mumbling).

After the ensuing loud bang, heavy thud shaking the airplane, and hearing multiple yelling voices and curse words, we're asking them what happened, trying to make sure no one got hurt, they refused to answer, disconnected the headset without saying ANYTHING, not even "tow bar disconnected, bypass pin disengaged", no salute, no waveoff, just hopped on the tug and drove away.

Tried to call the station ops frequency to get someone to tell us what was going on, got some oriental girl who also could barely speak the English language, couldn't understand what we needed, CA is trying to get ahold of dispatch on his phone, finally a Supervisor shows up with a DECENT tug operator (English speaking citizen born in America that is clearly experienced in operating the tug, standard phraseology, etc), he tows us back into the gate after inspecting the nosewheel, and maintenance comes out. The supervisor then brings down 12 passengers who got left because of the early push rush from the gate agent, turns out nothing got damaged, and we left.

Never heard anything back after the ASAP, which is unusual for us. The system REQUIRES the company to post a response to EVERY ASAP submittal, but this one disappeared. I tried to follow up on it with the Chief Pilot a few weeks ago, he just shook his head and said "don't bother".

As a personal aside, from jumpseating every single week on SWA back and forth to MCO, the gate agents ALWAYS clear me in CASS. They often do this even if there's 30 open seats in the back. The SFO station is just... special.

 

[dicko]

The company can put a company pilot up front if needed (DH pilot


They can make a DH ride the jump seat?

Exactly what I was thinking. So, you could be DH in a cockpit Jumpseat for 5.5 hours, then operate a 5.5 hour leg ? For example: ATL-SEA-ATL in the winter.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Exactly what I was thinking. So, you could be DH in a cockpit Jumpseat for 5.5 hours, then operate a 5.5 hour leg ? For example: ATL-SEA-ATL in the winter.

Actually, no.

What the contract allows is for the company to put up to one DH'er in the cockpit, except in the case where the DH is over two hours (or a combination of DHs totalling over two hours) and you then have to fly afterwards. In that case, you're both entitled to a seat in the back.

In practice however, at least in my experience, the CSS & Ops people almost always issue you a boarding pass to sit in the back, regardless of DH length or booked capacity. Similarly, the majority of the time, DH pilots will offer to sit in the JS if the flight is full, or there's non-revs, etc. If the flight is short, sometimes you see both pilots agree to sit up front, or one on 4th, if available, to get another pilot or non-rev aboard. Or decline to sit both up front even for short, oversold flights, so that an OAL pilot can have the second cockpit JS when the plane would otherwise be full. Or any combination of the above to make it work. That also assumes the working pilot crew is okay with it, although I've never heard of them saying no.

Basically, the company wants to be able to put one pilot in the JS on DH's for short flights, but the reality is, that pilots are pretty smart, and try to help out, especially if it's a matter of getting a brother pilot on the plane as well, regardless of airline.

Make more sense?

Bubba

 

[Tripower455]

Actually, no.

What the contract allows is for the company to put up to one DH'er in the cockpit, except in the case where the DH is over two hours (or a combination of DHs totalling over two hours) and you then have to fly afterwards. In that case, you're both entitled to a seat in the back.

In practice however, at least in my experience, the CSS & Ops people almost always issue you a boarding pass to sit in the back, regardless of DH length or booked capacity. Similarly, the majority of the time, DH pilots will offer to sit in the JS if the flight is full, or there's non-revs, etc. If the flight is short, sometimes you see both pilots agree to sit up front, or one on 4th, if available, to get another pilot or non-rev aboard. Or decline to sit both up front even for short, oversold flights, so that an OAL pilot can have the second cockpit JS when the plane would otherwise be full. Or any combination of the above to make it work. That also assumes the working pilot crew is okay with it, although I've never heard of them saying no.

Basically, the company wants to be able to put one pilot in the JS on DH's for short flights, but the reality is, that pilots are pretty smart, and try to help out, especially if it's a matter of getting a brother pilot on the plane as well, regardless of airline.

Make more sense?

Bubba

Thanks for saving me some typing.... This is exactly how it works.....