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SWA Interview Number Crunching

Pig

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Trying to get some thoughts on when SWA may start interviewing so I'll try to put some numbers together and see if anyone can elaborate on them.

According to Amy Webb at the Dallas Air Inc Seminar, SWA has "something less than 600" applicants on file with a type rating going back to applicants on file since 2001 which have not yet been interviewed. To keep it simple we'll just assume 600 typed applicants who will be interviewed before the rest of the 3000 total applications supposedly on file.

Assuming 361 in the pool at the start of the year, and a conservative 200 starting class in 2003 in addition to some who have left the pool of JB, FED X, ATA or a return to active duty, the pool could be down to 140 by year's end.

Assuming SWA wants to keep a small pool to fill classes quickly without waiting on a full interview cycle, they may not want the pool to go below 80. This would allow a minimum 2 month turnaround to get an interviewee into a class.

With these assumptions, SWA may start interiews no later than to coincide with the current pool dwindling to about 80 pilots (2 classes of 20 per month for 2 months. This is what Amy Webb says they plan to be SWA's max training rate although they can surge higher for a short time).

If 2004 hiring stays as big as some projected at 450, the current pool will be drained by Feb '04. So interviews would theoretically start at least by Dec 03.

Furthermore, the historical hiring rate at SWA is 1 in 4 interviewees gets hired so the 600 typed applicants on file would provide 150 new hires, the first of which would start training in this scenario in Mar '04 and the last be in training in Jun '04 assuming 2 classes of 20 per month in '04.

Certainly alot os asumptions and 'if's' in this scenario but I think it is a reasonable outlook. Just wanted to get something started for those in the applicant pool hoping to hear from SWA for an interview. Everyone else's thoughts I'm sure could add alot to this thread.

Pig
 

Pig

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Yeah, I got that update letter also. I wanted to put some numbers out there to try to narrow down the large time frame SWA has allowed in there update letter as well as give people an idea as to when they could be in training if hired.

It also would be nice to hear from the current poolies as to when the last to be interviewed had their applications on file to give those 600 typed applicants an idea how far down the interview order they may be based on their application date.

Pig
 

learjetguy

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one forth?

Pig,
Got a question for you. Since you say one out of
four statistically get hired at SWA, do you have any
idea how many of those that do get hired already
have there type. In other words, does having the
type have any bearing on actually landing the job?
If it does,than you cant assume that only 150 of the
typed applicants will be hired.

(I bet that water feels good,sure would be nice to
go swimming!!)
Learguy
 
Last edited:

tredding@swa

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type is

REQUIRED to apply after Nov 2002. Thise who put in app prior to 11/02 were "grandfathered" but will have to wait for "typed" applicants to interview....

Tred
 

boeingdriver213

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Just talked to LL, she said maybe interviews late in the year. Looks like they might interview according to qualifications instead of when you applied. Could be good could be a long wait. How much laundry can I do in 1 year?
 

Pig

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While getting typed at HPA SWA's pilot recruiters came by to talk as they do for each HPA class and they said historically 1 in 4 interviewees gets hired. About half 'pass' the interview, although they didn't use that term, and out of those that 'pass' the interview the hiring decision committee hires. They did throw in a caveat that some can 'fail' the interiview but get hired by the hiring decision committee based on strong personal recommendations from others.

As far as a type helping the decision committee to hire you I think they said it wasn't a factor in the interview but the final decision committee could give it some weight. Don't know how much effect it has on the 1 in 4 historical hiring rate but it can only help.

Finally, I asked Amy Webb at the Dallas job fair about the change to review applicants 'competitively' instead of interview solely according to the date the app was on file. She said they would group people generally according to a range of dates, then bring people in out of that date range in for interviews based on hours, qual's, letters of rec, etc. She explained with a puzzled look on her face as if she wasn't even sure what the exact way they were going to do it was. Maybe they would take the 600 or so typed applicants and divide them into 3 groups of 200. Then bring in the most qualified of the group on file the longest first until they get through all of them, then do the same for the next two groups of 200, then finally start on non-typed applicants. That's the most sense I can make of Amy Webb's answer. Date of app. seemed to still have a large influence on order to be interiewed. Maybe current poolies can comment on how it worked for them before this 'competitive review' policy was in effect?

Pig
 

Falconjet

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SWA Interview

Pig: Although your questions are very interesting they are pretty much moot because it doesn't much matter how SWA determined the order of interviewing people who are now in the pool. Things in the industry have changed so much since the people in the pool applied that by the time SW starts interviewing again they will more than likely have a different process in place for determining who they interview when than they did before the economy cooled.

I do THINK that they were more concerned with the order of apps (although I THINK they had two piles for the apps, those with and those without types) before and they were quite upfront about that. I think that with the market forces being what they are now, they can afford to be much pickier about their requirements. Anybody remember when you needed 4500 hours and the type rating to apply to SWA? I believe those were the requirements in 92 when I first tried to apply.

Here's some timeframe info from the deep end of the pool:

I applied to SWA in March of '01, with about 4500 total time, 4300 in jet, over 3000 pic, but no 737 type rating. I originally was scheduled for a Sep 25th interview which of course was canceled. I got a call in Dec for an interview in Jan 02, still no type. I got the call that I was successful with the interview phase in late Feb and started a type course on Mar 3rd. I had taken a chance and put down the deposit earlier to ensure I would be in a class if I got the call; and that I would get the call before the class started. I typed on Mar 15th, and sit as number 196 in the unofficial pool. Had I been more proactive and gotten the type rating sooner (like before the interview), I would be sitting at about #80 in the unofficial pool. That difference could easily mean a year waiting in the pool, or possibly never getting out of the pool, if hiring slows long term.

So, do you WANT to fly for Southwest? Do you WANT to be as competitive as possible? Do you WANT to demonstrate to SWA your commitment to wanting to fly for them first and foremost? If any of these are remotely the case, and you can somehow scrounge the money, go get the type. You WILL get called sooner for the interview, you WILL be more likely to get through the interview successfully, and you WILL stand a much better chance of the job offer with the type rating in hand.

I paid for the type out of my own pocket, so I know its not easy to come up with the bucks, but I sure wish I had done it sooner. Perhaps if I had the type when I originally applied I could have gotten and interview and class date before things went south. (Small concern compared to the number of folks whose lives were shattered on 9/11)

This is all hindsight and I'm not complaining at all, I'm happy to be in the pool at all, but I think that if I were hoping for an interview with SWA in the near future I would be doing everything I could to get that type rating so that the instant the doors do open up again, you will be as far up in the line as possible. Of course if you haven't applied yet, I guess the whole idea is moot because you now have to have the type in order to apply (like in 92).

Best of luck to you! FJ
 

ivauir

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For what it is worth ...

Applied spring (April?) of 2001 with 3000+ TT, 1200 FW turbine PIC (solid worldwide military airlift, aircraft commander in two airframes, IP in one). No type. Interviewed September 6th and typed November 27th of 2001. Interviewing without the type has meant more than a year on the street, but this was pre 9-11 and prior to that it would have meant only a couple of months.
I do NOT think the type directly helped people get hired - I know a TON of people who got hired without it - but, the people who went out and got the type first tended to be knowledgeable and enthusiastic and perhaps most importantly - properly prepared. The standard Kit Darby "put your best foot forward" line is important - dress right, get quality preparation - these things should help you relax and be yourself.
Obviously you have no chance without the type right now, but if you did I'd still advise you to get it but only if you were willing to go the full mile. Don't spend 8 grand on a type and show up cold or in a $99 suit. It's not a fashion show, but you'll see all the sharp italian numbers with power ties and you'll get intimidated and act goofy. Just being your best is almost certainly enough to get you hired, but if not ... there is nothing to do but learn something and try again.

Best of luck
 

Pig

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Thanks for the replies from the two current poolies. This type of information can be helpful to those in the applicant pool. I know what I have started is just conjecture about what SWA MIGHT do about interviews but I couldn't resist. I thought it could help give people some idea of where they stand as far as being interviewed and, if hired, in training.

As far as things changing after 9/11, SWA's announcement that they will review applicants on a 'competitive basis' is the new policy I'm trying to figure out. The pilot recruiter at the Dallas job fair confirmed that for previous interviews they almost exclusively looked at application date once they were split into 2 piles - typed and non-typed.

Adding to my previous comments regarding the interview/hiring decision committee process, the briefers at HPA used the phrase 'recommend hiring' or 'not recommend'. About half got the 'recommend' from the 3 interviewers. (2 out of the 3 had to give you a thumbs up to get the recommend.) About half those getting a recommend from the interview committee got a job offer according the briefers. Some that got a not recommend would still get a job offer, however, from the final hiring committee.

As far as the type helping the final decision committee hiring you, I guess we could change it from 1 in 4 for overall interviewees to 1 in 3 for those with a type, which would mean 200 potential job offers from the approximately 600 typed applicants on file.

A question for those in the hiring pool, I know the date of interview and the date of your type both somehow come into play for deciding class order, but does anyone know exactly how they do decide, and what might happen to a military guy activated that misses there offered training date?

Pig
 

tredding@swa

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how they do it?

I do not believe that anyone (except SWA) really knows HOW they make the final decision on where each poolie fits into the actual hiring/class date order.

Just by looking at our "unofficial" list you can see a bit of jumping around.... of course we have no idea where the other "ghost poolies" are from, their type or interview dates, etc....

You can also look into some other posts here and see where people have guestimated the class poolie "X" may attend.... some folks are within a few numbers of each other on the "unofficial" list, yet one has been given a class of say #8 and poolie "Y" is in possible #11.... no way to really figure this one out.....

Perhaps they take in to consideration what color socks you wore to the interview, or, if you had on a white shirt, or a colored shirt, maybe if you typed your app or hand wrote it....? blue eyes are preferential to brown eyes.....? perhaps we are all sorted by signs of the zodiac?? Alphabetical by birth state? reverse order by julian birthdates? Heck, it is the Chinese year of the Goat... perhaps all Goats come first!?!? :p

FACT IS NO one really knows... it just HAPPENS! :p

Wherever you end up in the scheme of things, good luck on getting interviewed/hired or whatever you do...... it IS a truly great company and a trendsetter as an airline. I am flattered to be so lucky to have been hired and look forward to being on board!! :cool:

Prayers for all of the families of our fellow aviators on board Columbia this morning..... a very sad day in aviation history.

Sincerely - Tred
 

Yahtzee

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Patience Grasshopper

Pig,

I believe the most recent letter sent to SWA applicants said "We do not anticipate starting interviews until mid to late 2003." or something close to that. Not trying to be picky, but the letter specifically did not mention when they would be interviewing.

Like Tred and xXpress1 have said, there are too many variables to determine when they will start interviewing, and who may be called when. You and I can't control any of those things. What we can do is this: Be prepared for the day SWA does call.

I'll wait patiencely hoping for SWA to call me. In the meantime, I'll do the best I can where I am, and will live my life praying for that day. I know even if they do call me, I am assured of nothing.

It's arrogant to think I will be called for an interview. It's even more arrogant to think SWA will place me in their pool.

Control what you can and have fun along the way!

Best Wishes!

Yahtz

Prayers to NASA and the families of those who perished today
 

zymotic

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For what it's worth: I've asked LL several times, "will my order to be called for an interview change? Will someone with a type who applies after me who has more hours slide in on top of me?" Her answer has been no they will not. The order will remain unchanged.

Typed in Jan 02 and applied in Feb 02.
 

SWAnnabee

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interview-hire ratio

I saw above that you said typically one out of four that interview gets hired?!?! Is this correct. Seems like an awfully big longshot if only 25% INTERVIEWED gets hired. Please elaborate. also, does EVERY QUALIFIED applicant get an interview?

Thanks from NAS Kingsville, Tx
 

intel33

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Yes, every qualified application will receive an interview. But it depends whether or not you have the type rating as to which line you go in. Do you want to be in a line with 600 people in it or in a line with 3000 people in it (behind the line with 600 in it?)
 

KingAirGuy

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Type rating

As much as I would love to take 2 weeks off from work (a few grand in un-earned income) And jet down to Higher Power (7K and we'll figure about 1500 for expences). So being very conservitave, 10 grand to get interviewed for a 25% chance at a job.

Perhaps some of you can take a gamble like that, but it would be financially irresponsible of me to do that to my family. Fortunately I have a flying job and can just wait in line (in the 3000 pile hand delivered my App to Heather in Nov 2001). Getting a type would get me an interview sooner and that's about it. I'm qualified and am in the pile, maybe I'll never get an interview, but some of us have mouths to feed.
 

Falconjet

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SWA Hiring

From my very limited experience I would have to say that 1 in 4 interviewees being successful is too low. While some smaller interview groups may have experienced that, most of the people who interviewed that I have talked to said that most of the folks in their group were successful. Of course SWA will be able to be more selective when they resume interviewing (assuming the economy remains stagnant and the applicant pool continually gets bigger) but I can't imagine that only 25% of the interviewees are successful.

At just about every airline hiring right now the gouge says that if you make to an interview you are 1) qualified for the job and 2)they want to hire you. The job is yours to lose. It costs big money to interview people and I've got to believe that more likely 75-80% of the folks interviewed get into the pool. Otherwise the company would be wasting a lot of money on interviews. The bottom line is that at least half the folks from my interview group were successful, and I think more like 75%.

Your mileage may vary, see your dealer for specifics.
 

ivauir

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my .02

At just about every airline hiring right now the gouge says that if you make to an interview you are 1) qualified for the job and 2)they want to hire you. The job is yours to lose.

I think 1 in 4 is about right. But that number was generated when they interviewed everybody in the order those apps were recieved. It would be easy to argue that now the hiring % will be higher because the candidates are screened before interview - However, it has been suggested by several knowledgeable sources that SWA gets pickier during times like these. The bottom line is - nobody knows.
If I had taken the 8 G gamble on myself and gotten the type before the interview I'd be coming up on my probation check - instead I am still waiting. But, I know myself well enough to know that interviewing with 8K invested would have put me under the gun. Some guys think having the type shows their commitment (I am sure it does) and that helps them relax. So if you have a choice I'd go 100% with my gut - there is NO WAY to predict the outcome of the interview and no way to guarentee it.
For most today there is no choice, no type = no interview. Just don't throw money at HP and expect to get a job. Make sure SWA is for you long term, get to know the company, and be fully prepared for the interview.

So being very conservitave, 10 grand to get interviewed for a 25% chance at a job.

It sounds like you are already in the interview pool: as long as you are prepared to suck up the extra months (year+) of waiting (if you are hired) I'd sit tight too. Just remember, the pilots interviewing you did go out and get their types just for the interview, as did most of the people who will be interviewing for some time to come. My point is, realise how lucky you are to have a choice right now and in the unlikly event it comes up, express your gratitude.

Best of luck - I'd love to see your smiling, suit wearing selves in DAL really soon!
 

Moosedryvr

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Ladies & Gentlemen,
Had the opportunity this weekend to spend some time with a member of the SWA Pilot Recruitment team (why they need a team to recruit pilots for SWA I don't know!).
Here's what she had to say in a nutshell:
- Interviews/additional hiring for '03 is doubtful
- Very good chance for those who already have apps in the stack AND HAVE TYPE RATINGS to recieve interviews in either very late '03 or 1st qtr of '04.
- If SWA were to start "full-up" training they would most likely burn through those currently in the stack w/ type ratings in 3-4 mos.
- SWA is implementing a COMPETITIVE interview process. (My understanding was that they no longer plan to interview all applicants, but will competitively screen to determine who will offered the opportunity to interview) Guess what a key weighting factor is in this COMPETITIVE process. Yes boys & girls, a 737 type.
- As far as competitive minimums are concerned - if you have the minimums to apply (1000 hrs PIC, etc.), you are competitive.
- SWA is cautiously optimistic regarding the future. They are prepared pounce on the apps they have in the stack if the situation warrrants, but are planning for a more realistic late '03 -early '04 resumption of interviews

My take on the above info:
1. Get your type if you want a chance for a SWA interview. Although it was never stated outright, it did NOTsound like SWA would be calling anyone without a type any time soon.
2. SWA is going to be a greeat place to be in the future; lots of new airplanes combined with lots of age 60 retirements equals instant seniority
3. Poolies hang in there, it sounded like those curerntly soaking should be out by X-Mas '03 at the latest (my interpretation of the info offered, NOT stated in any form by the SWA People Dept rep).
4. If your timeline sets you up for '04, place SWA high on your list of places to be. If your needs are more immediate, not so much.

All the best to the SWAnnabe's out there. Hope all find this info useful and not too depressing!
 

Pig

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Moosedriver,

Thanks for that info. That is the kind of stuff that can be useful for people who are contemplating other options, such as a return to active duty or AGR jobs, or pushing hard for a move to a corporate.

For those who were wondering where the 1 in 4 number comes from for successful interviewees, That is what we were briefed at Higher Power by the SWA pilot recruiting women.

Can someone confirm whether or not an applicant that puts in there app with out a type rating, then subsequently gets one, would be put at the bottom of the interview stack or whether they would be fit in to the typed stack according to their original app date?
 
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