SWA Hiring...

[Ty Webb]

Also, for pilots starting out now the upgrade is a factor as well. If the legacy upgrade is at 12 years and SW is at 20 the extra years in the left seat is worth a lot of money. SW pays FO's very well but the years of SW FO's making more than legacy CA's is quickly approaching it's end with this latest contract cycle. Legacy FO pay has also risen although SW is still better in most cases.

I don't think that many SW/AT FO's will choose to start over but there will be some younger ones who will do it. The big question a few years from now will be if the next generation of new, younger pilots will choose to go to (or stay at) SW if there is significant movement and hiring at the legacy carriers. The advantages that SW had for new-hires when the industry was in the toilet and they were the only game in town are not as pronounced now. The fact that career progression at SW today is very different from what it was back in the days of rapid growth will be a factor when new pilots are looking for career positions. How many years does a new pilot want to work weekends and holidays, be on reserve, be at the most junior base, wait for upgrade, etc? Junior pilots working at a company with slow movement do these things....even at SW.

One thing in favor of SW though as somebody else pointed out is that SW weathers downturns far better than most carriers. In this industry the one thing you can always bet on is that there will be another downturn.....there always is.

In any case, the fact the industry seems to be profitable and there is movement and hiring that seems to be accelerating is good for all of us. The last decade has been pretty rough for this industry.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

 

[madjack]

I pray that DL hires every tranny that wants to go...

 

[scoreboardII]

So, there is NO way your airline could ever go BK? Ever? Alright, I just want to make sure you believe that 100%, because the former Pan Am, Eastern, and TWA guys probably thought the same way back when. I thought the same in the late 90s, but was proven wrong. Just try not to get too cocky here. I know it's tough for some of you Corndogs, but things happen. Simmer down a bit.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I never said what you just stated.

You need to take a chill pill yourself and police your writings, at least read for comprehension what others are posting.

I said, before SWA enters BK, they have a road of numerous revenue enhancing options. You make it seem as though BK for SWA is a foregone conclusion.

There have been more than a vocal few on this forum proclaim the demise of SWA by 2009, 2010, 2011, 12, 13. Still here, actually bigger. Getting close to 15% ROI.

Hard to fathom an airline going from 15% ROI to BK. We are not in the money laundering days of the 80's and 90's, using today accounting rules prevents all of those shenanigans.

Now, given 40 years of profitability, I have to say that yes, I will now state, I have 100% confidence, SWA will continue to make money, one way or the other. I do not see them turning into a money grinding machine like all the other legacies, taking ten years to get into BK, and another five to get out. That's not an LCC plan.

I do see them working with employees, taking drastic paycuts, and undercutting the renewed legacies, and yet again, those renewed legacies restarting their cycle through the courts all over again, the business cycle repeats. That's what I see as inevitable.

Happy hunting.

 

[scoreboardII]

Also, for pilots starting out now the upgrade is a factor as well. If the legacy upgrade is at 12 years and SW is at 20 the extra years in the left seat is worth a lot of money. SW pays FO's very well but the years of SW FO's making more than legacy CA's is quickly approaching it's end with this latest contract cycle. Legacy FO pay has also risen although SW is still better in most cases.

I don't think that many SW/AT FO's will choose to start over but there will be some younger ones who will do it. The big question a few years from now will be if the next generation of new, younger pilots will choose to go to (or stay at) SW if there is significant movement and hiring at the legacy carriers. The advantages that SW had for new-hires when the industry was in the toilet and they were the only game in town are not as pronounced now. The fact that career progression at SW today is very different from what it was back in the days of rapid growth will be a factor when new pilots are looking for career positions. How many years does a new pilot want to work weekends and holidays, be on reserve, be at the most junior base, wait for upgrade, etc? Junior pilots working at a company with slow movement do these things....even at SW.

One thing in favor of SW though as somebody else pointed out is that SW weathers downturns far better than most carriers. In this industry the one thing you can always bet on is that there will be another downturn.....there always is.

In any case, the fact the industry seems to be profitable and there is movement and hiring that seems to be accelerating is good for all of us. The last decade has been pretty rough for this industry.

The same could be said for SWA at numerous periods when upgrades jumped from 2 to four years, then 6, then ten, oh my. It is what it is, an industry stagnation, not just SWA. SWA will normalize by about 2020, then upgrades will return as the bubble of older folks leave the ranks. So right now, upgrades will push 20, but they are already at 10-12, will raise to about 18-20 over next 6 years, then drop off again.

While the legacies furloughed, SWA kept everyone employed, do the math on that.

Removing SWA from your list as a young newhire at this time would be folly, in fact, it may still be the best bet in town 10 years from now. The only person who should avoid SWA is the military retiree who is in their 40's, you will be a West coast FO till you retire.

 

[HowardBorden]

That is what makes MORE money for legacy pilots, each upward movement pays MORE.

Actually that's what makes LESS money for legacy pilots. To use the airline you claim you currently work for, the only airframes that pay more than our 737's are: 747-400, 777-200LR, 777, A330-300, A330-200, 767-400ER, which totals 87 airframes or 12% of the 719 in the fleet. So, if you are currently flying the DC9, 737-700, A319, MD88, A320, MD90, 737-800, 757-200, 757-300, 767-300 you are doing so for a lower hourly rate than every Southwest pilot flying every Southwest airplane. You don't need to continually head to the schoolhouse and bust your ass to make a higher pay rate. You aren't required to continually base hop to follow wherever the 12% of the fleet that pays a higher wage is located as opposed to every aircraft deployed at every domicile at SWA.

Disclaimer: Figures based on current pay rates and fleet numbers listed on APC.

 

[General Lee]

Actually that's what makes LESS money for legacy pilots. To use the airline you claim you currently work for, the only airframes that pay more than our 737's are: 747-400, 777-200LR, 777, A330-300, A330-200, 767-400ER, which totals 87 airframes or 12% of the 719 in the fleet. So, if you are currently flying the DC9, 737-700, A319, MD88, A320, MD90, 737-800, 757-200, 757-300, 767-300 you are doing so for a lower hourly rate than every Southwest pilot flying every Southwest airplane. You don't need to continually head to the schoolhouse and bust your ass to make a higher pay rate. You aren't required to continually base hop to follow wherever the 12% of the fleet that pays a higher wage is located as opposed to every aircraft deployed at every domicile at SWA.

Disclaimer: Figures based on current pay rates and fleet numbers listed on APC.

Yeah, but you still are awaiting your next contract talks, and GK seems hell bent on going back to LCC status. And Howie, you forgot the INTL override and higher perdiem for the 757 and 767s, which actually bring the pay higher than yours on your 737. Any INTL flight, including Hawaii, means the INTL override is added. You don't know that because you guys don't do INTL....

Also, with 4000 pilots leaving within 5 years (2020-2024), there will be lateral moves to larger equipement, plus vertical moves from FO to Capt. A 737 FO getting paid less than your rate has choices to move up and make more on bigger planes, or if he is senior in his seat he could move to the left seat of the 717 and make more than your 737FOs. Plenty of choices.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[kwick]

SW F/O left for Spirit, what does that tell you.

Five year Spirit Captain makes more than senior SW F/O.

Spirit upgrade dropping to 3-4 years.

 

[General Lee]

SW F/O left for Spirit, what does that tell you.

Five year Spirit Captain makes more than senior SW F/O.

Spirit upgrade dropping to 3-4 years.

Don't tell Redflyer or ScoreboardII, they won't believe you, and tell you that you are going to HELL!


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Don't tell Redflyer or ScoreboardII, they won't believe you, and tell you that you are going to HELL!


Bye Bye----General Lee

You answering from Europe again on another Southwest thread. You have very little idea of what goes on at Delta, much less SW. Time to log back on to Microsoft Flight Simulator. The ATC simulated controller has just cleared you to taxi behind the two Delta Connection 900's taxing from the left. Haha.

 

[Scoot 11]

You answering from Europe again on another Southwest thread. You have very little idea of what goes on at Delta, much less SW. Time to log back on to Microsoft Flight Simulator. The ATC simulated controller has just cleared you to taxi behind the two Delta Connection 900's taxing from the left. Haha.

He has no idea. He's not a DL pilot, as I have proven on another thread, and just acknowledging this doosh just gives him human rights, neither of which (s)he deserves!