SWA Gets More Cautious For '08

[firstthird]

ETOPS requires another power source besides the 2 engine driven generators. Not sure what an HMG is either, but I'm going to guess that it is an Hydro-mechanical generator based on a quick google search.

 

[firstthird]

Actually, we had alot to do with it.

whalepilot747

We being who? SWA? Are you saying we sent our boys around with baseball bats and told AWA "hey, youz guyz better not be buying ATA, youz heerz meez?"

SWA could put in a better offer, I doubt if we have the pull to tell banks who and who not to finance. We're not the man behind the curtain.

If you contend otherwise, please find some analyst comments from the time frame to back up your contention or some other way to put some evidence behind this 'fact.' thanks.

 

[firstthird]

good news on the 737 replacement frong

Boeing: Expect a 737 replacement plan by 2012

Boeing will settle on a replacement plan for its 737 jet by 2012, a company spokesman told The Associated Press last week. AP says the company first "seriously" began considering a replacement last year for the jet, which has accounted for more than 6,000 sales since the model debuted in 1967. Boeing spokeswoman Sandy Anger said the U.S. jetmaker "must ensure it has the right set of breakthrough technologies in engines, aerodynamics, materials and other systems" to better the 737's efficiency before it unveils plans for a new model. When could such a jet be flying? Anger said Boeing hopes that could be "sometime in the middle of the next decade — give or take a couple of years.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/

Maybe we will get a 737 replacement someday.

 

[waveflyer]

Sit, back, relax & enjoy the ride... Remember, who has never furloughed...ever...

Agree with the first part- who knows on the 2nd. I believe that same line was used at Delta for years. "We've never furloughed" --- Until we had to.
Eyes wide open is the only advice.

 

[whalepilot747]

whalepilot747

We being who? SWA? Are you saying we sent our boys around with baseball bats and told AWA "hey, youz guyz better not be buying ATA, youz heerz meez?"

SWA could put in a better offer, I doubt if we have the pull to tell banks who and who not to finance. We're not the man behind the curtain.

If you contend otherwise, please find some analyst comments from the time frame to back up your contention or some other way to put some evidence behind this 'fact.' thanks.

Ok, Kernel..... It was no real secret when I worked there (ATA) at the time that SWA had a large hand in it. BTW, you are correct about the HMG. Maybe you can google what it takes to be a full up ETOP's carrier.....then maybe you will realize we are NOwhere close to becoming one. ATA's codeshare is not a big deal, we basically are getting free money for flying which we are unable to do. I am much more concerned about RJ's showing up. Now that's a problem.....

Cheers....

 

[Daddy]

I'm not concerned about RJ's showing up...I am concerned about us sanctioning RJ's to serve our markets without our pilots in them. If 100 EMB-190's showed up today for SWA pilots to fly throughout our system, I would be overjoyed...almost as happy as if 100 787's showed up. If I heard we outsourced that flying out to someone else, I would be PO'ed

 

[firstthird]

Ok, Kernel..... ATA's codeshare is not a big deal, we basically are getting free money for flying which we are unable to do. I am much more concerned about RJ's showing up. Now that's a problem....

Kernal? what's up with the name calling. All I asked was for you to provide some kind of source for your assertion (besides what you heard on the line since we both know how accurate the 'common wisdom' out on the line turns out to be sometimes) Besides, I thought kernals were kompany men, and all the kompany men are all for the kodeshare and anything else the GO shovels our way; like the new internal customer service initiatives, e.g. no more preboarding for you if you are #3 to signup for the jumpseat (is that PPRUNEy enough for ya?)

I agree about RJ's since they would be a fundamental change to our model but so is feeding someone else international.

I disagree that the ATA codeshare is 'no big deal' since it is 'free money' for 'flying we can't do oursevles.' some of the codeshare we could do ourselves, some of it maybe neither of us should be doing, and all of it provides income to SWA not coming from SWA flight crews, which is bad juju in the long run.

 

[atafan]

and all of it provides income to SWA not coming from SWA flight crews, which is bad juju in the long run.

SWA is one of the best if not the best story in running a profitable airline that is why you have had growth and stability all of these years. I bet concern over how long it will take a copilot to upgrade to captain has little to do with the business decisions SWA management has made over the years or in the years to come.

Better embrace a little juju juice with a lime in it......

 

[Daddy]

I will embrace just about any idea SWA has except for the idea of outsourcing flying to someone else. I get the idea of testing the int'l waters, but we can do that flying too...it aint rocket surgery

 

[jke406]

I will embrace just about any idea SWA has except for the idea of outsourcing flying to someone else. I get the idea of testing the int'l waters, but we can do that flying too...it aint rocket surgery

you're right, it's not rocket surgery. all you have to do in a 737 is stop in Nova Scotia and Iceland.

 

[HalinTexas]

all you have to do in a 737 is stop in Nova Scotia and Iceland.

Try Newfoundland. Gander or St. John. If you have have to go to Iceland there's not much point in going for ETOPS, because you've Greenland.

 

[atafan]

Hal,

I give up.

SWA will dominate the world and every SWA FO will make Captain next year so that they can fly to all those exotic locations. Who cares about ATA, as long as all you SWA FOs can make Captain and your growth rate goes through the roof.

Good thing pilots do not control the destiny SWA.

I don't think I could care less anymore cause at least I still have the life raft deal going for me.

 

[CaptSeth]

I don't sweat this stuff. If the guy doesn't have the stones to say the same thing to me about "bad juju" when he's asking for my jumpseat or passing me in the terminal, it's all just blowhard bluster.

 

[firstthird]

Hey, sorry I upset you guys. This thread had a few guys wondering why any SWA pilot would not like the codeshare. I gave my opinion of why I don't like it.

That doesn't mean I'm going to accost ATA pilots in the terminal especially when I think SWA semi-screwed them when the whole 'acquire the gates for xmas' deal went down.

Didn't mean to upset everyone just wanted to point out how a semi-coherent pilot might not like codeshares. If you like them and think they are future of aviation, great.

I haven't heard many stories of SWA or ATA pilots acting like jerks to each other and hope that I don't come off that way. This whole codeshare deal is a management decision and thus I don't hold animosity against pilots about management decisions, so why would I go accosting ATA crews on the jumpseat or in the terminal, cahones or no?

 

[Whataburger]

Hal,

I give up.

SWA will dominate the world and every SWA FO will make Captain next year so that they can fly to all those exotic locations. Who cares about ATA, as long as all you SWA FOs can make Captain and your growth rate goes through the roof.

Good thing pilots do not control the destiny SWA.

I don't think I could care less anymore cause at least I still have the life raft deal going for me.

Most of us could care less about "exotic" destinations, but we definetly care about OUR Company, OUR growth, OUR continued profitability, OUR career progression, and OUR future. Most of us hope that the ATA program will be great for both companies for a long time, but we also have to mind our business on the homefront.

 

[HalinTexas]

I haven't heard many stories of SWA or ATA pilots acting like jerks to each other and hope that I don't come off that way. This whole codeshare deal is a management decision and thus I don't hold animosity against pilots about management decisions, so why would I go accosting ATA crews on the jumpseat or in the terminal, cahones or no?

Unfortunately, I have. Hasn't happened to me personally, but the story gets repeated on our own "private" b!tchboard. Same refrain, "you're taking away my upgrade."

What I have heard is a profound ignorance of the industry, their own company, and what it takes to fly international and ETOPS. "You have to run the APU on the -800's?"

I'm a fan of SWA. Turned down three times. Have read the books, followed the stories, know some people. But the one thing that has changed is that SWA is now the top dog. Highest pay, no obvious forbodings. That has never happened before. SWA has always been the underdog. Wasn't on most people's No.1 airline to work for. Now, it's all that and a bag a chips.

Caution: Kings of the hill will soon be knocked off. They may get another shot at the top so long as they don't break their arms in the fall.

Listen to managment. Read between the lines. Read the papers! Kelly is trying his best to enhance revenue before he goes for deeper cuts, i.e. pay and benefits. I'm sure he's also hoping the rest of the industry indirectly "helps him out." ATA management isn't trying anything. We're just holding a place for someone else to take it, be it SWA or someone else. And take off the rose-colored glasses. I was shocked when I did.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Unfortunately, I have. Hasn't happened to me personally, but the story gets repeated on our own "private" b!tchboard. Same refrain, "you're taking away my upgrade."

What I have heard is a profound ignorance of the industry, their own company, and what it takes to fly international and ETOPS. "You have to run the APU on the -800's?"

I'm a fan of SWA. Turned down three times. Have read the books, followed the stories, know some people. But the one thing that has changed is that SWA is now the top dog. Highest pay, no obvious forbodings. That has never happened before. SWA has always been the underdog. Wasn't on most people's No.1 airline to work for. Now, it's all that and a bag a chips.

Caution: Kings of the hill will soon be knocked off. They may get another shot at the top so long as they don't break their arms in the fall.

Listen to managment. Read between the lines. Read the papers! Kelly is trying his best to enhance revenue before he goes for deeper cuts, i.e. pay and benefits. I'm sure he's also hoping the rest of the industry indirectly "helps him out." ATA management isn't trying anything. We're just holding a place for someone else to take it, be it SWA or someone else. And take off the rose-colored glasses. I was shocked when I did.

Hal:
Beautifully put!
Same thing happened to UAL in the 90's.
What's that saying, becareful who you step on your way up!
Southwest's days are numbered, and with the pompous jerks you see on here can only be a reflection on how hard they will fall!

 

[atafan]

I realize I shouldn't take it personally, it being business and all. When a SWA employee makes statements like, "ATA is flying our routes with our flight numbers and it should be with our pilots", I take that as a personal assault. If an ATA pilot complained about SWA taking "our" routes, you know the routes like say MCO, DEN, FLL, PHL and RSW, just to name a few and ATA parked airplanes and furloughed pilots, we were chastised by SWA pilots for even hinting that SWA took our flying.

News Flash! ATA has been flying to Hawaii for almost as long as SWA has been around, this is our flying not yours. Should ATA pilots complain that SWA is putting on your Rapid Awards customers and barely paying for the fuel to carry them? Need I remind you that ATA has provided millions of free dollars to your bottom line and we have only lost money on these glorious codeshare routes. It seems that SWA is the only one benefiting from these routes just so you can GROW and upgrade as many co pilots as possible.

Do I hold any hostility towards SWA pilots for any of this, of course not. I have many friends at SWA and respect SWA as a company and think of SWA pilots as brothers but you have your 10% and so do we. Every now and then I need to vent and this is as good a place as any.

Your union's job is to protect SWA pilot's future and I don't have heartburn with anything they have done, ATA ALPA will do that as well. I just ask to please remember that we are just soldiers in this war that we didn't start and lets treat each other with mutual respect.

Thank you, venting complete!

 

[HalinTexas]

And another thing........

 

[mdf]

My ATA Brothers,

I think the point is being missed. The general message that should be conveyed is that most SWA pilot's don't want to end up in a legacy type scope arrangement. I think that is what most of these SWA guys on here are trying to say. It's just coming out the wrong way. I think the majority of pilots have a lot of respect for the ATA guy's. As far as "pompous" goes, I don't know what you are talking about. The biggest "Captain America" I ever met is an ATA guy. He fly's the 57 into dirt patches all over the world with a wad of cash, and used to be a welder, yada yada, yada. I hope things trend up for you guys,
and I had much higher hopes for this whole codeshare thing. I really looked at it as a huge opportunity, but like everything else since 9/11 it has kind of stagnated. When things go idle, the only thing left to do is bicker. We have to worry about things like headsets, scope clauses, cleaning up contract language, and age 65 reform. All this while age 65 ICAO pilots fly over our airspace, and open skies are pushing their way in.

 

[jke406]

Most of us could care less about "exotic" destinations

as a SWA pilot, do you have any other choice?

 

[Esprit]

Ya right. El Paso sounds so much more tantalizing than Maui.

ESPRIT

 

[Jetjockey]

Ya right. El Paso sounds so much more tantalizing than Maui.

ESPRIT

Yeah, but the hotel in ELP gives you free breakfast burritos in morning.

 

[GuppyWN]

Yeah, but the hotel in ELP gives you free breakfast burritos in morning.

True. But watch the hot sauce. WOW that sh!t is hot.

To the ATA posters. Dudes - you've got it figured out. While I'd like to complain about "us" doing the flying you guys have arguements that I cannot refute.

We are all pawns. Plain and simple. To think of individual pilots as the enemy is just not LUV like and I will not do it.

Gup

 

[HalinTexas]

We're not even pawns. That would infer that we have some value to be sacrificed.

 

[Whataburger]

as a SWA pilot, do you have any other choice?

Yea, apply at DAL, CAL, or UAL.

 

[K-Mart]

Hal:
Beautifully put!
Same thing happened to UAL in the 90's.
What's that saying, becareful who you step on your way up!
Southwest's days are numbered, and with the pompous jerks you see on here can only be a reflection on how hard they will fall!

Haven't seen you use this username in a while. Is one of your other ones banned right now.

 

[atafan]

The biggest "Captain America" I ever met is an ATA guy.

He's an embarrassment, I hope you set him straight and shut him up. :smash:

We have our 10 percent, I had hoped even less.

 

[bravodude]

I realize I shouldn't take it personally, it being business and all. When a SWA employee makes statements like, "ATA is flying our routes with our flight numbers and it should be with our pilots", I take that as a personal assault. If an ATA pilot complained about SWA taking "our" routes, you know the routes like say MCO, DEN, FLL, PHL and RSW, just to name a few and ATA parked airplanes and furloughed pilots, we were chastised by SWA pilots for even hinting that SWA took our flying.

News Flash! ATA has been flying to Hawaii for almost as long as SWA has been around, this is our flying not yours. Should ATA pilots complain that SWA is putting on your Rapid Awards customers and barely paying for the fuel to carry them? Need I remind you that ATA has provided millions of free dollars to your bottom line and we have only lost money on these glorious codeshare routes. It seems that SWA is the only one benefiting from these routes just so you can GROW and upgrade as many co pilots as possible.

Do I hold any hostility towards SWA pilots for any of this, of course not. I have many friends at SWA and respect SWA as a company and think of SWA pilots as brothers but you have your 10% and so do we. Every now and then I need to vent and this is as good a place as any.

Your union's job is to protect SWA pilot's future and I don't have heartburn with anything they have done, ATA ALPA will do that as well. I just ask to please remember that we are just soldiers in this war that we didn't start and lets treat each other with mutual respect.

Thank you, venting complete!

not worth the time

 

[Esprit]

not worth the time

Whats the problem, nothing intelligent to say? Right or wrong, at least he's contributed to the conversation in an honest and respectful way.

ESPRIT