SWA Fleet update

[Snoopy58]

From SWA:

Southwest has taken delivery of N436WN–our fifth new Boeing 737-700 of the year. The new aircraft, combined with a -200 retirement, keeps our fleet at 378 aircraft.
For the remainder of the year, Southwest has 12 additional 737-700 deliveries scheduled.

I won't try to read the tea leaves as to what that means for future hiring. HOWEVER...

... I did hear an interesting rumor the other day: In January 2005, DRVSM (Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums) takes effect, opening up the even-numbered flight levels above 280. Good thing, right? Not if you're a 737-200, which needs at least a new Air Data Computer & maybe more than that in order to be compliant with the new rules. Apparently the new ADC is too costly, and flying the -200's around at FL280 and below is too inefficient, so (according to this particular rumor) SWA will retire the last -200 at the end of 2004.

What's this mean? It means that there will be (if I did my ciphering correctly) 8 more -200 retirements during 2004 than there otherwise would have been (the last 8 were originally scheduled to retire during 2005). Will SWA take delivery of more -700's during that time to offset the extra retirements? Unknown. Will the jets all retire at once, or will they be spaced out across the year? Unknown (though the former option keeps them in revenue service longer, but creates a shock to crew manning in Jan 05). What's this mean for hiring? I won't even think about going there -- way beyond any insight I have. (Sorry!)

One other related rumor about the -200's. Right now they're flown by DAL and HOU crews, plus whoever volunteers to stay current in the -200 & pick up DAL/HOU trips. Rumor says, as of January 2004, all -200 flying goes to a single base. No word if it will be DAL or HOU. Minimal impact on poolies/newhires from this rumor, I should think.

cheers,

Snoopy

 

[SWA GUY]

10:1 odds say the -200's are gonna be in DAL.

I sure hope so anyway.......

HC

 

[canyonblue]

10:1? Man I think even money DAL!

 

[SilentDave]

Chicks did the -200!

 

[OPIE01]

Do the -200s go to FL 280 in Texas

Why do they have to retire all the -200 by the time this new rule comes out.

If all the -200s are based in Dallas and only fly short hops around the state, will they ever need to get to FL 280?

 

[Snoopy58]

SWA wouldn't be FORCED to retire the -200's when DRVSM goes into effect; they'd just be capped at 280. The routes in Texas as they're filed currently for the -200's do go above 280 most of the time. It would be possible to fly the routes all at 27 or 28, but apparently (and this is where I'm relying on the source of the rumor) the cost in fuel is too high. The -200's use a lot of gas compared to the -300's anyway, and when the financial wizards looked at the -200 program costs (mx & so forth in addition to fuel), that step pushed the costs beyond the point where it was worth keeping the jets into 2005.

So, it seems that the decision has been made to just get rid of the last 8 of the -200's a year early.

No insight if the -700 deliveries will be stepped up to compensate, in full or in part, for the faster retirements. Stepping up the deliveries would keep the fleet size up & keep expansion on track (and also hiring!), but at a significantly higher cash cost than what had been forecast (i.e. paying for new jets sooner than originally planned). I'm not nearly smart enough on the numbers to know if the benefits of the larger fleet outweigh the costs of accellerated payments to Boeing.

The good news is that there ARE plenty of smart people at the G.O. who are very good at those sorts of decisions! (The bad news is, they don't always clue me in on their plans. Sorry!)


BTW -- if somebody is offering 10:1 odds that the -200's all end up in Dallas, I'd take that bet for a dollar!

 

[goflyme]

when did the 200's get flight management computers?

 

[CaptWidgeon]

hey silent dave, do you maybe mean 'dig'???

 

[SilentDave]

Yup, too much Shiner combined with a blond moment.

 

[SilentDave]

Slick, you need to change your status to "no longer a mooch on society"
Good luck on IOE I'll catch up with you next week.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

SilentDave, uhhhh...why change my status? i merely see the glass as being half full with my new situation. i am still a mooch on society, only at a higher lever.

MadDuck out...

 

[sfomarc]

when did the 200's get flight management computers?

They didn't, they don't, and they won't.

 

[skykid]

Question for a Southwest pilot - how many total pilots do you have? Just curious how many pilots for 378 aircraft. I'm guessing somewhere between 10-13 pilots per plane.

 

[Pig]

About 10.5 currently from sources I've seen. Anyone know how many more -200 retirements are scheduled this year? How many total are left?

 

[canyonblue]

when did the 200's get flight management computers?

It's the two pilot types upfront.

 

[Snoopy58]

Pig,

I don't have the most current info, but according to the drawdown schedule published about a year ago, the schedule was to have 27 by now, retire 6 during the second half of 2003, 13 during 2004, and the last 8 during 2005.

The news clip I quoted at the start of this thread referred to a -200 retirement in the last month or so, which is sooner than any -200 retirements were shown on the schedule of a year ago, so clearly changes have already been taking place. I'm sure that some smart people have had the adjusted drawdown schedule in place for a while, adapting plans & building schedules, but they seem to leave me off their emails, so I can't tell you exactly what the new plan is.

Perhaps somebody will get a glimpse of something in one of the pilot lounges & post it here???

Rough numbers, though, about 20ish of the -200's still around.
Didn't break my heart to get a -300 instead of a -200 for a day of flying around bad Texas weather a few days ago, I've gotta say!

Snoopy

 

[intel33]

So, is there any value to a retired -200? Does anyone know what SWA in particular does with them?

I'm sure some of you guys that did AF UPT in west Texas have been to ROW (home of the UFO museum). My best guess is they have some 200 planes in moth balls there. One of many places I'm sure around the Southwest. I've only seen about 8 737s there. I think about five or six -200s and maybe two or three -300s. LOTS of DC-8s, 727s, L-1011s and DC-10s. Last I counted there was 11 American widebody Airbuses. Lots of ATR-42's Etc. Most of the older ones have been de-engined.

I know SOME body is paying to keep these things in storage.

The ATC guys said they have never seen anything leave, as I'm sure the used market ain't what she used to be.

Any one got a guess as to what SWA does when they retire them. Is number one going to enshrined at LUV?

 

[SWA GUY]

I think we ought to put a -200 on a stick up at the GO.

And now for another rumor: Apparently one of our top knots commissioned a study to turn the -200's into freighters for our use. Now that's a scary thought!

HC

 

[canyonblue]

So, is there any value to a retired -200? Does anyone know what SWA in particular does with them?

Was told in annual EPT that one that was retired is being used by ground ops in DAL as a trainer. Any DAL or HOU guys know about that one.

 

[Snoopy58]

NEW -200 rumor!

Well, gang, I don't make this stuff up, I'm just reporting what I hear, and I'm way, WAY too low on the totem pole to tell you who's right, but I heard a slightly different version of the earlier rumor today... SWA is apparently considering NOT grounding all the -200's when DRVSM kicks in, but letting them fly below 28! So maybe they're around longer than Christmas next year... we shall see.

Also, it's looking like I'd be out the dollar re the -200 base bet... present rumor says it'll be Dallas for sure.

Haven't heard about the freighter study rumor, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there. SWA looks at all kinds of things as interesting possibilities.

I think the news about using one of the -200's as a ground ops trainer was in the company in-house news several weeks ago. Sounds familiar, anyway. Jet-on-a-stick Airport Bar sounds like a cool idea too, I'd buy a round there!

Flightinfo reports, you decide!

Cheers!

Snoopy

 

[LearAv8r]

FAIR AND BALANCED.

 

[CoopDog]

Below FL 280 not a bad idea anyhow

I remember back right after the Aloha incident (very high time, high cycle -200) occurred, all old -200 operators had to comply with some AD's regarding fuselage skin inspections.

Being in maintenance at the time with the original Piedmont, we had our hands full. We sent some older -200's out the door looking like battleships (with numerous external skin repairs and huge protruding head rivets)....wasn't a pretty site.

At the time Piedmont had many of it's older -200's limited to FL 240 in order to comply with the AD. I remember riding in the back one day from MCO to DAY at FL 240 in a very noisy older -200 hoping the top wouldn't blow.

Here's an excerpt from the AD (I don't know if SWA operates any of these birds or not). Note the max diff. pressure of 5.67 psi:




88-22-11 R1 BOEING: Amendment 39-6059 as revised by Amendment 39-6432. Docket No. 89-NM-141-AD.

Applicability: Model 737 series airplanes, line number 001 through 519, certificated in any category.

Compliance: Required as indicated, unless previously accomplished.

To prevent rapid decompression of the airplane, accomplish the following:

A. For airplanes line number 001 through 291, prior to the accumulation of 40,000 landings, or within 10 calendar days after November 21, 1988 (the effective date of Amendment 39-6059), whichever occurs later, restrict all flight operations to a maximum cabin pressure differential of 5.67 psi until the inspections required by paragraph B.1., below, are accomplished.