SWA delays -800s till 2017

[General Lee]

That is strange. I thought the 717 rumors were supposed to be "let out" a few days ago or last week? It does sound suspect. I thought there were other 717s out there too (ex Mexicana?) and then I had heard if it happened at all there would be a slow transfer of planes, maybe 12 per year for the first couple? Who knows? A lot of stuff going on right now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I think reality is sinking in for Southwest. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe they have a fuel hedge advantage anymore, the Air Tran merger is burning thru precious cash and I think they realize they will get their butts kicked by Hawaiian and Alaska if they ever get the FAA to sign off on their ETOPS program (not going well from what I am hearing).

 

[waveflyer]

I think reality is sinking in for Southwest. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe they have a fuel hedge advantage anymore, the Air Tran merger is burning thru precious cash and I think they realize they will get their butts kicked by Hawaiian and Alaska if they ever get the FAA to sign off on their ETOPS program (not going well from what I am hearing).

Nice. Very original

 

[scoreboardII]

I think reality is sinking in for Southwest. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe they have a fuel hedge advantage anymore, the Air Tran merger is burning thru precious cash and I think they realize they will get their butts kicked by Hawaiian and Alaska if they ever get the FAA to sign off on their ETOPS program (not going well from what I am hearing).

Oh please, do tell, a skywest pilot knowledgable on the SWA ETOP's certification.

 

[scoreboardII]

You are kidding of course.

Oh yeah!

 

[humveedriver]

SWA is still taking deliveries in 2013, 14. Just not as many. While I'm sure there are cost savings to doing this, it always seems like there is a real story behind these moves. For all we know Boeing asked them to do this and take the heat, in exchange for a sweeter deal, as the 737 production line in KS recovers from the tornadoes. Or it could be tied to a deal with another airline. In the year I have been dealing with my new management, one thing is for sure. They don't show all of there cards, ever. The original 20 ordered for 2012 were 700 orders that got converted. The same for 2013 and part of the 800s ordered for 2014. If the simplest answer is often the truth, then I think the Hawaii folks are partially correct. Meaning, as SWA works it way through the transition the markets aren't there for the 800 yet. Originally they envisioned the 800s in high demand slotted airports and probably int'l as well. It's too bad some of those 800s could not have gone to AirTran as we would have been able to use them, but that would have been too expensive. With SWA and AT unable to code share, the marketing folks at SWA have their hands full.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well I'll stir up a hornet's nest here. All this talk about bashing RJ feed on FI never acknowledges that it provides the feed needed to fill up larger airplanes. There is a finite amount of traffic out there and limited places airlines can fly and fill up larger airplanes. They need the feed RJ's provide from numerous small towns to fill up the larger airplanes.........now give me a minute to find my flak jacket and helmet before you guys go all Alpo sucks on me.

 

[Crash Pad]

Dan Roman. The idea isn't that Delta can no longer have RJ feed. The idea is that Delta can buy or lease an RJ and then hire a Delta pilot to fly it. I don't care if Delta needs 5000 RJ's. I don't even care if Delta pays the RJ pilots the same as regionals pay. One list. RJ is junior 777 is senior. Furlough is bottom to top.

In case you have been out of the industry. Currently, Delta furloughs and Expressjet hires. See the problem.

 

[madjack]

Or perhaps: Why take delivery of "older" technology (-800) when you are the launch customer for the Max?

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan Roman. The idea isn't that Delta can no longer have RJ feed. The idea is that Delta can buy or lease an RJ and then hire a Delta pilot to fly it. I don't care if Delta needs 5000 RJ's. I don't even care if Delta pays the RJ pilots the same as regionals pay. One list. RJ is junior 777 is senior. Furlough is bottom to top.

In case you have been out of the industry. Currently, Delta furloughs and Expressjet hires. See the problem.

I totally understand. It got out of hand as larger RJ's were outsourced. I saw a figure that something like 50 percent of all domestic traffic was on an RJ. I'm not condoning the outsourcing of the large RJ flying at all. I have to wonder why the legacies don't just keep it in house. Obviously it's for economic reasons, but there has to be an advantage to controlling the product in house.
But no one can really say if those furloughs happened because DAL couldn't fly those express jet routes profitably and were pulling out of them anyway and maybe filling the void with RJ flights kept mainline fuller. There is a point that that is true, and of course there is a point that to much flying is being outsourced.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Last time SWA scaled back and filled the bank vault, they bought AirTran. Maybe SWA is going to make a move on American.

 

[texman]

Last time SWA scaled back and filled the bank vault, they bought AirTran. Maybe SWA is going to make a move on American.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM WORRIED ABOUT! It may be AA or something else in the mix, hopefully it is something positive.

 

[scoreboardII]

Last time SWA scaled back and filled the bank vault, they bought AirTran. Maybe SWA is going to make a move on American.

We have a winner ladies and gentleman.

 

[scoreboardII]

Well I'll stir up a hornet's nest here. All this talk about bashing RJ feed on FI never acknowledges that it provides the feed needed to fill up larger airplanes. There is a finite amount of traffic out there and limited places airlines can fly and fill up larger airplanes. They need the feed RJ's provide from numerous small towns to fill up the larger airplanes.........now give me a minute to find my flak jacket and helmet before you guys go all Alpo sucks on me.

You're right.

But giving away the jobs that fly those folks, 50% of your jobs, is whats wrong. It was you senior eating your junior.

 

[Citrusflyer]

Think about it. The -800's are not suited well in SWA's route system for the domestic only flying (maybe a route here and there, but not overall). If the FAT guys cannot use them to fly "international", and if ETOPS is stalled for a year, why spend the $$ for an aircraft that is too big for the system? There's really no conspiracy here. Not to worry, when the merger is complete, they'll start coming. Until then, cash is king ....