SWA/AT traffic way off in ATL

[BILL LUMBERG]

Yeah....and let's see how long they last.

 

[wood pecker]

Is Cape Air successful? The one out of Boston that TV show Wings resembled. I know I liked the TV show while it lasted.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Is Cape Air successful? The one out of Boston that TV show Wings resembled. I know I liked the TV show while it lasted.

Thanks to EAS. Because if it wasn't for that, I don't see folks clammoring to fill up 402s.

 

[scoreboardII]

We're doing that a lot-- give up money-making routes (mainly short haul) to use those planes to run higher money-making routes instead. Of course that begs the question, why don't we buy more planes and do all of the money-making routes, but you'd have to ask GK about that. <ahem> <15%ROIC> <cough, cough>

Bubba

The reason I heard for this was we are again competing with the car, and losing. Only if it takes them longer than the better part of a day to drive, do they strongly favor airtravel. That and, when oil spikes, and ticket prices go up, these are the first routes folks stop traveling all together. While longer routes still need to be flown for folks seeing grandma across the country and such.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

The reason I heard for this was we are again competing with the car, and losing. Only if it takes them longer than the better part of a day to drive, do they strongly favor airtravel. That and, when oil spikes, and ticket prices go up, these are the first routes folks stop traveling all together. While longer routes still need to be flown for folks seeing grandma across the country and such.

Would predominantly leisure travelers and the select few that utilize "point to point" service have anything to do with it? Business travelers and higher end travelers would probably still prefer to fly over drive if the car ride is more than a few hours. Delta is upgrading service between a lot of short haul cities that RJ's use to do. WN is cutting back in short haul service. Obviously not an apples to apples comparison but it's worth considering.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

No dig here Score, Red, et. al......

Would you say your model is now that of a legacy? You guys did all the point to point that nobody else did and now long haul Transcons with a hub and spoke system is what seems to be the latest moves.

 

[redflyer65]

No dig here Score, Red, et. al......

Would you say your model is now that of a legacy? You guys did all the point to point that nobody else did and now long haul Transcons with a hub and spoke system is what seems to be the latest moves.

Honestly Bill,

It has evolved more 'legacy-like', but not a full on hub and spoke. There's still plenty of point to point....just less of it. As examples....we fly almost everything direct from Florida to the Northeast. TPA-BDL, FLL-PVD, etc, etc. The same is true on the West Coast, so you really still don't have to go thru BWI or OAK respectively.

And I'll add that the -800 has not helped that turn time. It's usually 50 minutes because it just takes longer to get 175 off, then 175 on. So those kind of longer turns are more like legacies.

Could it evolve into a full hub and spoke? Sure. I don't think it will, but that's up to the GO to decide. They run the numbers from every angle. I'm just along for the ride. Hoping for lower oil prices for ALL the airlines though. This 100-110 has gone on long enough.

 

[scoreboardII]

Bill, good question. SWA is moving that direction, but as noted above, we are more hybrid than pure legacy with it's feed structure. SWA is it's own RJ feed. Still trying to find the niche. We don't charge for bags like everyone else, but do try to keep fares low, not lowest. We do hub upwards 40%, but still mostly PtP.

SWA used a song in an add a year so ago from a band in Arizona, word was GK wanted to have an add more like DAL or AA. He got it, very nice looking, but it said nothing.

The name of the song? "Who are we now". Very fitting as we don't know, and the ad agency was dropped shortly thereafter. I have not seen a decent SWA add since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S-snuCDBXc

 

[HowardBorden]

No dig here Score, Red, et. al......

Would you say your model is now that of a legacy? You guys did all the point to point that nobody else did and now long haul Transcons with a hub and spoke system is what seems to be the latest moves.

I think it has obviously evolved closer to a "traditional" hub and spoke system but still is a much different model of doing business. I hear pilots and industry folks talk about SWA as more of a hub and spoke model, but the average traveler doesn't even know what the hub and spoke model consists of. In the end SWA still has literally hundreds of routes that no one else does. I hear very often from friends that they love Southwest because they fly xyz-xyz non-stop and no one else does. There are lots of routes out of lots of cities that the only game in town is SWA for non-stop service. I know many will counter "yeah, but only one or two flights a day", but for many folks once or twice a day is enough. Look at Kansas City for instance. It is not a mini-hub or focus city but it offers non stop service to: SEA, PDX, OAK, LAX, SAN, PHX, ABQ, LAS, DEN, MSP, DAL, HOU, MSY, MSP, MKE, FLL, TPA, RSW, MCO, ATL, BNA, IND, MDW, STL, BOS, BWI, DCA. Of course some of those flights to hubs like MSP, ATL, PHX, DEN are duplicated by other airlines, but for the vast majority SWA is the only non-stop game in town. Passengers really like that option and many others are quite happy to flow through one of our domicile cities to get to their final destination at a cheaper price. I agree it has evolved more towards hub and spoke but there are still many large differences.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ok,
I know a lot of people have this stigma of ATL 15 years ago and hate it as a hub or connection point. Honestly it's an efficient setup there, haven't held in years and only due to weather over the field.


Some of those hopscotch 5 leg cheap tickets that go coast to coast usually pass through a hub like DAL or MDW....isn't that technically a hub and spoke?

Your 800s hold as many as our 757s and I gotta say, boarding and deplaning at L2 creates a dual flow and allows the clown car to empty quicker....I'll bet that plane has brought a few turn time headaches.....any thoughts of a 9max down the line?