• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.
  • Logbook Pro for Apple iOS version 8.1 is now available on the App Store. Major update including signature endorsements and dark/light theme support. Click here to install now.

SWA/AT traffic way off in ATL

Flycatcher99

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2003
Posts
248
Total Time
7500
ORLANDO, Fla., Jan. 5, 2011 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), today reported December and full-year 2010 traffic. The low-cost leader recorded all-time annual records for available seat miles, load factor and enplaned passengers.

Yeah, there was a definite trend by the end of 2010.

If AT recorded all-time annual records for ASM, load factor, and pax in 2010, then how does one make sense of this statement from the original article...

Southwest and AirTran combined carried 869,918 Atlanta passengers in November 2013. That's down more than 20 percent from AirTran's passenger count in November 2010, and down 30 percent from the more than 1.4 million passengers AirTran carried in November 2007.

Sounds from that piece like the pax count for AT in 2007 was higher than in 2010. I admit that doesn't make much sense. Did the article get the figures backwards?
 

Luv2BFlyin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Posts
514
Looking at the calendars for 2007 vs. 2010, there were more days in November after Thanksgiving in 2007 which should account for better numbers than 2010.

Figures lie and liars figure, and the press is reporting it.
 

KarmaPolice

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Posts
279
Total Time
4500
This article is some biased bs. Oh the horror, fares are up 1.4 percent. You mean lower than annual inflation?

Not to mention, isn't SWA overflying Atlanta more now with their point to point model?

How about an article about how media has become pandering peddlers of biased info to capture the short term attention of any moron who will click on their overhyped headline.
 

Flying the Line

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Posts
417
Total Time
8000
In 2010 AirTran did have flights that didn't go through Atlanta. They could have better overall numbers and still be down in Atlanta. See, was that so hard to figure out.
 

wood pecker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Posts
325
Total Time
3200
Face it, something big is going on behind the scenes at SW. Either another merger, code share, charge for bags, or something.

Seems at AT when everyone started feeling left out during negotiations and morale was in the tank, (strike vote = searching truck driving schools), it all made sense after a few years. Heck they even took away our 60 hour emergency sick banks at AT. Look what SW offered to other groups including ours regarding our sick banks.

AT didn't worry about losing trust with labor groups because the whole time they knew they would be done with us after the acquisition. Currently somewhere in TX in a boardroom, " how long can we drag out negotiations and collect our next 150% bonus for xyz?"

To me I think SW has tons of potential with all of the international, I just hope we are part of the equation. Coffee is ready who wants some? It's extra nutty.
 

jackjack

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Posts
20
Total Time
10,000
SWA is getting their butt kicked in ATL at the same rate Genital Lee is getting his butt kicked on Flightinfo! Lol
 

freightdogfred

Malcontent
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Posts
990
Total Time
Mucho
Sounds from that piece like the pax count for AT in 2007 was higher than in 2010. I admit that doesn't make much sense. Did the article get the figures backwards?


The Atlanta pax was may have been down 20% for 2010 and 30% for 2007 because AT started focusing on more point to point flying to bypass the ATL hub. The airline grew, just not the ATL hub.
 

humveedriver

M1165A1
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Posts
1,005
Total Time
+7000
The Atlanta pax was may have been down 20% for 2010 and 30% for 2007 because AT started focusing on more point to point flying to bypass the ATL hub. The airline grew, just not the ATL hub.

Yep. After 2008, bankrupt Delta and oil prices changed AT's strategy. Can't find the Wall Street investor briefings anymore that showed the exact shift of flying, but this article from Oct 21, 2009 gives the gist of it;


By Kelly Yamanouchi

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

AirTran Airways swung to a $10.4 million profit in the third quarter, reversing a year-earlier loss, and said expansion in other cities has made it less reliant on its Atlanta hub.

The profit, which amounted to 8 cents per diluted share, compares with a $94.5 million loss in the same quarter last year. AirTran also said it had year-to-date profit of $117.6 million, a record in terms of total amount.

The profit for the quarter, which ended Sept. 30, included $6.3 million in paper losses on future fuel hedges and a $6.4 million gain by retaining deposits from a terminated contract to sell aircraft. AirTran added two Boeing 737 jets to its fleet in September that it had previously planned to sell, but the buyer's financing fell through.

AirTran, which has shrunk its flight operations as travel demand declined, saw its third quarter operating revenue fall 11.3 percent to $597.4 million, down from $673 million a year ago.

AirTran's operations in Atlanta now make up about 50 percent of its total network, down from 52 percent earlier this year. The Atlanta share may fall to about 45 percent next year as AirTran adds flights in other cities, executives said.

AirTran has about 230 daily flights in Atlanta, down from about 270 at its peak, and its Atlanta flight capacity is about 6 percent lower than it was a year ago. Meanwhile, it has expanded in other cities such as Baltimore and Milwaukee.

"We're at a level in Atlanta now that is solidly profitable, and although it's a smaller percentage and it shrunk a little bit, we're done," said AirTran's senior vice president of marketing and planning, Kevin Healy.

Healy and AirTran chief executive Bob Fornaro said during an investor conference call that travel has declined due to weakness in the corporate meetings segment.

Although meetings bookings are recovering, the improvements for airlines will not show up until later, Healy said.

AirTran also said it has made progress in labor talks with pilots and flight attendants, and that mechanics and inspectors just ratified a new 48-month contract.
 
Last edited:

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
The Atlanta pax was may have been down 20% for 2010 and 30% for 2007 because AT started focusing on more point to point flying to bypass the ATL hub. The airline grew, just not the ATL hub.

That's a good point, and probably a much more likely explanation than "having more days after Thanksgiving," to account for such a large change in the number of ATL passengers. Going more point-to-point.

So how come when Southwest does this to further "de-hub" ATL, you guys all jump on it like it's some sort of sign of the apocalypse? I mean why send people through ATL (or anywhere else, for that matter), when you don't have to and they're really trying to get to another destination?

Bubba
 

Ty Webb

Hostage to Fortune
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Posts
6,525
Total Time
11000+
I mean why send people through ATL (or anywhere else, for that matter), when you don't have to and they're really trying to get to another destination?

Bubba

More frequency, more choices of destinations.

Direct flights are great, but often you have three choices- painfully early, painfully late, or painfully absent.
 

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
More frequency, more choices of destinations.

Direct flights are great, but often you have three choices- painfully early, painfully late, or painfully absent.

I think you missed the point.

When AirTran reduced ATL traffic to provide more point-to-point instead of hub-and-spoke, it's considered good, but when Southwest reduces ATL traffic for more point-to-point, it's considered bad? Make up my mind already! :)

Bubba
 

Luv2BFlyin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Posts
514
I think you missed the point.

When AirTran reduced ATL traffic to provide more point-to-point instead of hub-and-spoke, it's considered good, but when Southwest reduces ATL traffic for more point-to-point, it's considered bad? Make up my mind already! :)

Bubba

AirTran reduced frequency, but didn't cut direct city pairs. Big difference from that and what WN is doing now.
 

freightdogfred

Malcontent
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Posts
990
Total Time
Mucho
AirTran reduced frequency, but didn't cut direct city pairs. Big difference from that and what WN is doing now.

Exactly. Reducing the frequency of certain city pairs is exactly how they did it, and it varied seasonally as well. In addition they'd mix in a 737 here and there to lessen the pain. But cutting completely the short block hour flights (ATL-MEM, ATL-CLT, ATL-PNS) which were always full seems like just giving those passengers away to Delta. I always thought those to be the high-yield flights due to such short block times shows how little I know.
 

redflyer65

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Posts
4,456
Total Time
8000
Southwest has been transitioning from very short haul carrier to more and more long haul over the past 5-6 years. There's just not that much revenue in the short haul anymore. Gary has been very forthcoming about how the market has changed and how he intends to change with it.

Southwest routing, IND-MDW (just one example) has been gone for awhile. Just not enough yield there and you can make more using those planes for long haul.

If they can't make money on it, they won't do it. Just utilize the equipment someplace else.
 

freightdogfred

Malcontent
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Posts
990
Total Time
Mucho
Southwest has been transitioning from very short haul carrier to more and more long haul over the past 5-6 years. There's just not that much revenue in the short haul anymore. Gary has been very forthcoming about how the market has changed and how he intends to change with it.

Southwest routing, IND-MDW (just one example) has been gone for awhile. Just not enough yield there and you can make more using those planes for long haul.

If they can't make money on it, they won't do it. Just utilize the equipment someplace else.


Really. Delta now charges 485$ for a 1-way flight to MEM now, it's the cheapest walk-up fare, the premium time slot is over 800$. All for less than 1 hr of block time. You do the math

http://www.delta.com/air-shopping/s...&checksum=2075956119&cacheKey=yvgdLQQ0mQxGdGc
 

redflyer65

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Posts
4,456
Total Time
8000
It wasn't my decision Freight. I'm just trying to give you a little background on what's been going on here long before AirTran was involved. If it's lucrative, maybe they will add it back in.
 

freightdogfred

Malcontent
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Posts
990
Total Time
Mucho
It wasn't my decision Freight. I'm just trying to give you a little background on what's been going on here long before AirTran was involved. If it's lucrative, maybe they will add it back in.

Understood. It just seems crazy to give up market share on these short, high yield runs that were full every flight. (at least the ones I flew)
 

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
Understood. It just seems crazy to give up market share on these short, high yield runs that were full every flight. (at least the ones I flew)

We're doing that a lot-- give up money-making routes (mainly short haul) to use those planes to run higher money-making routes instead. Of course that begs the question, why don't we buy more planes and do all of the money-making routes, but you'd have to ask GK about that. <ahem> <15%ROIC> <cough, cough>

Bubba
 

Crash Pad

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,720
Total Time
40,000
Wait. I see. You then expand. Multiply that by 4 airlines and suddenly those routes get real thin. Profits dwindle and airlines go bankrupt. Almost like a cycle that's in every text book. Good job smart guys you just cut our wages, lost our profit sharing, and allowed Spirit to grow and claim they have the highest paid pilots!
 

wood pecker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Posts
325
Total Time
3200
Southern Airways out of PDK in Atlanta is starting back up. They will be doing MEM and a few FL places. $200-300 each way and no TSA.
 
Top