SWA/AT traffic way off in ATL

[BILL LUMBERG]

Yeah....and let's see how long they last.

 

[wood pecker]

Is Cape Air successful? The one out of Boston that TV show Wings resembled. I know I liked the TV show while it lasted.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Is Cape Air successful? The one out of Boston that TV show Wings resembled. I know I liked the TV show while it lasted.

Thanks to EAS. Because if it wasn't for that, I don't see folks clammoring to fill up 402s.

 

[scoreboardII]

We're doing that a lot-- give up money-making routes (mainly short haul) to use those planes to run higher money-making routes instead. Of course that begs the question, why don't we buy more planes and do all of the money-making routes, but you'd have to ask GK about that. <ahem> <15%ROIC> <cough, cough>

Bubba

The reason I heard for this was we are again competing with the car, and losing. Only if it takes them longer than the better part of a day to drive, do they strongly favor airtravel. That and, when oil spikes, and ticket prices go up, these are the first routes folks stop traveling all together. While longer routes still need to be flown for folks seeing grandma across the country and such.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

The reason I heard for this was we are again competing with the car, and losing. Only if it takes them longer than the better part of a day to drive, do they strongly favor airtravel. That and, when oil spikes, and ticket prices go up, these are the first routes folks stop traveling all together. While longer routes still need to be flown for folks seeing grandma across the country and such.

Would predominantly leisure travelers and the select few that utilize "point to point" service have anything to do with it? Business travelers and higher end travelers would probably still prefer to fly over drive if the car ride is more than a few hours. Delta is upgrading service between a lot of short haul cities that RJ's use to do. WN is cutting back in short haul service. Obviously not an apples to apples comparison but it's worth considering.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

No dig here Score, Red, et. al......

Would you say your model is now that of a legacy? You guys did all the point to point that nobody else did and now long haul Transcons with a hub and spoke system is what seems to be the latest moves.

 

[redflyer65]

No dig here Score, Red, et. al......

Would you say your model is now that of a legacy? You guys did all the point to point that nobody else did and now long haul Transcons with a hub and spoke system is what seems to be the latest moves.

Honestly Bill,

It has evolved more 'legacy-like', but not a full on hub and spoke. There's still plenty of point to point....just less of it. As examples....we fly almost everything direct from Florida to the Northeast. TPA-BDL, FLL-PVD, etc, etc. The same is true on the West Coast, so you really still don't have to go thru BWI or OAK respectively.

And I'll add that the -800 has not helped that turn time. It's usually 50 minutes because it just takes longer to get 175 off, then 175 on. So those kind of longer turns are more like legacies.

Could it evolve into a full hub and spoke? Sure. I don't think it will, but that's up to the GO to decide. They run the numbers from every angle. I'm just along for the ride. Hoping for lower oil prices for ALL the airlines though. This 100-110 has gone on long enough.

 

[scoreboardII]

Bill, good question. SWA is moving that direction, but as noted above, we are more hybrid than pure legacy with it's feed structure. SWA is it's own RJ feed. Still trying to find the niche. We don't charge for bags like everyone else, but do try to keep fares low, not lowest. We do hub upwards 40%, but still mostly PtP.

SWA used a song in an add a year so ago from a band in Arizona, word was GK wanted to have an add more like DAL or AA. He got it, very nice looking, but it said nothing.

The name of the song? "Who are we now". Very fitting as we don't know, and the ad agency was dropped shortly thereafter. I have not seen a decent SWA add since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S-snuCDBXc

 

[HowardBorden]

No dig here Score, Red, et. al......

Would you say your model is now that of a legacy? You guys did all the point to point that nobody else did and now long haul Transcons with a hub and spoke system is what seems to be the latest moves.

I think it has obviously evolved closer to a "traditional" hub and spoke system but still is a much different model of doing business. I hear pilots and industry folks talk about SWA as more of a hub and spoke model, but the average traveler doesn't even know what the hub and spoke model consists of. In the end SWA still has literally hundreds of routes that no one else does. I hear very often from friends that they love Southwest because they fly xyz-xyz non-stop and no one else does. There are lots of routes out of lots of cities that the only game in town is SWA for non-stop service. I know many will counter "yeah, but only one or two flights a day", but for many folks once or twice a day is enough. Look at Kansas City for instance. It is not a mini-hub or focus city but it offers non stop service to: SEA, PDX, OAK, LAX, SAN, PHX, ABQ, LAS, DEN, MSP, DAL, HOU, MSY, MSP, MKE, FLL, TPA, RSW, MCO, ATL, BNA, IND, MDW, STL, BOS, BWI, DCA. Of course some of those flights to hubs like MSP, ATL, PHX, DEN are duplicated by other airlines, but for the vast majority SWA is the only non-stop game in town. Passengers really like that option and many others are quite happy to flow through one of our domicile cities to get to their final destination at a cheaper price. I agree it has evolved more towards hub and spoke but there are still many large differences.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ok,
I know a lot of people have this stigma of ATL 15 years ago and hate it as a hub or connection point. Honestly it's an efficient setup there, haven't held in years and only due to weather over the field.


Some of those hopscotch 5 leg cheap tickets that go coast to coast usually pass through a hub like DAL or MDW....isn't that technically a hub and spoke?

Your 800s hold as many as our 757s and I gotta say, boarding and deplaning at L2 creates a dual flow and allows the clown car to empty quicker....I'll bet that plane has brought a few turn time headaches.....any thoughts of a 9max down the line?

 

[redflyer65]

I don't see any version of the -9 in our future. I think they will focus on the 800 max and will most likely transition some of the 700 orders over.

ATL is much better than it used to be. It was constant that you heard people from the South talk about how disgusted they were with transferring planes in Atlanta. The joke was 'if your going to hell, you'll have to transfer planes in Atlanta.' I'm glad it's gotten better, because in the end it helps all carriers too.

Your right about some people taking 3 legs to their destination. A lot of times they chose that option willing because it gives them the absolute lowest fare in our system. They might have gone direct for an extra 30 each way, but wanted to pocket the cash instead. It's just option.

I'm sure not sure you'd call it hub and spoke if the plane (and some px) transition thru DAL or MDW. Most of the time the plane never comes back. Going coast to coast on a single flight number.

 

[tankerhead]

Bill, good question. SWA is moving that direction, but as noted above, we are more hybrid than pure legacy with it's feed structure. SWA is it's own RJ feed. Still trying to find the niche. We don't charge for bags like everyone else, but do try to keep fares low, not lowest. We do hub upwards 40%, but still mostly PtP.

SWA used a song in an add a year so ago from a band in Arizona, word was GK wanted to have an add more like DAL or AA. He got it, very nice looking, but it said nothing.

The name of the song? "Who are we now". Very fitting as we don't know, and the ad agency was dropped shortly thereafter. I have not seen a decent SWA add since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S-snuCDBXc

Dude the name of that song is "Some Nights." I thought it was a great ad that showed some polish and I'll bet your average middle-class joe agreed. If that ad agency was truly dropped then that's just one more mis-step from the big-brain d!cks in Dallas.

BTW, I'm a current trannie.

The ground-ops militants are gonna run this place to ground. Gary better fix that sh!t.

 

[humveedriver]

Dude the name of that song is "Some Nights." I thought it was a great ad that showed some polish and I'll bet your average middle-class joe agreed. If that ad agency was truly dropped then that's just one more mis-step from the big-brain d!cks in Dallas.

BTW, I'm a current trannie.

The ground-ops militants are gonna run this place to ground. Gary better fix that sh!t.

This was my favorite add of all time!

http://youtu.be/xIK0kzhEJzM

When I joined the army the slogan was "be all that you can be" everyone on the planet knew it and could sing the song. I don't even know what the current slogan is and I have 6 years before I retire!

The ding " you are now free to move about the country" was perfect.

 

[scoreboardII]

Ok,
I know a lot of people have this stigma of ATL 15 years ago and hate it as a hub or connection point. Honestly it's an efficient setup there, haven't held in years and only due to weather over the field.


Some of those hopscotch 5 leg cheap tickets that go coast to coast usually pass through a hub like DAL or MDW....isn't that technically a hub and spoke?

Your 800s hold as many as our 757s and I gotta say, boarding and deplaning at L2 creates a dual flow and allows the clown car to empty quicker....I'll bet that plane has brought a few turn time headaches.....any thoughts of a 9max down the line?

Bill, that's just it, each day, for each location, there are probably two to four non stop flights, and then you start getting into a hop scotch mode, more like a bus or train service, then maybe a few hub and spoke flights.

L2?

We have stopped buying the 700NG and are only buying 800s that we cannot back out of, we are waiting for the MAX before going all in.

Until then, 300's for all my friends.

-900max is a great idea except it cannot work out of MDW. Now, normal operations sure, but wet good and your diverting. At least a max landing weight 800 can land wet good.

 

[scoreboardII]

Dude the name of that song is "Some Nights." I thought it was a great ad that showed some polish and I'll bet your average middle-class joe agreed. If that ad agency was truly dropped then that's just one more mis-step from the big-brain d!cks in Dallas.

BTW, I'm a current trannie.

The ground-ops militants are gonna run this place to ground. Gary better fix that sh!t.

I agree except the ground ops comment.

Ground operations has been cut in half since 2005 on a per plane basis. So when you don't have enough folks to load baggage in 2014 (flying 800's, flying everyone's bags for free), who do you blame, the ramper who's on his third day of forced double shifts, the polar vortex, or do you blame management for overworking their workers?

I beseech thee, go talk to a few rampers doing the walk around, they're just like you and me, trying to make a living. Except they get told they need to work 16 hr days, four days in a row.

 

[redflyer65]

L2?

Second boarding door on the left.

As far as hub and spoke lines go, we have very, very few pure turns like the legacies. Once you leave your base you probably won't see it until you land at the end of your trip. That part is drastically different, and I prefer it.

 

[madjack]

SWA is not a legacy, we haven't been bankrupt and we haven't furloughed?

 

[Nindiri]

We will, sooner or later.

So we might as well get a contract worthy of dragging the company into bankruptcy and ride it while we can. Max pay til the last day, I say!