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SWA/AT differences on Trip Trading/OPs

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Lear70 said:
There are some helpful things in the AirTran way of trip dropping, that's for certain. The ability to straight-drop a trip if the coverage is positive is certainly nice. Of course, with the reserves we're carrying it's not a problem, they'll just assign it to a reserve before the 48 hour run-down for Premium Pay so it never goes Premium.
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With the reserves we carry on the other side, AIN"T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!!!

Lear70 said:
Overall I like their system better, but it would be nice to be able to straight drop and have open time available the entire month. It sure is nice to do 90% of my trading in the first 24-48 hours after daily is open, have my line almost exactly like I want and able to give that schedule to the fiance' for monthly social calendar planning for the entire month and not waiting to see what I can snag 4 days prior.
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I don't have a problem with the best of both but IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!

Heard heard the phrase, fly it like a 200? That may not have originated here BUT they sure as hell have continued to use it as long as possible and when in doubt, you'll hear someone say it and/or do it! Change is difficult around here!

Lear70 said:
Sounds like if you want to really work the system, you have to practically live on your computer???
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BINGO, We have a winner, if you've already figured this out you're ahead of the game, some guys never get it and IF you want to be a "tournament level player" ie. game the system, you have to be a slave to the system, join a cartel, or get the "Sniper program" for the open time system...AND LIVING IN DOMICILE DOESN'T HURT!!!

Good Luck,
KBB
 
Lear70 said:
There are some helpful things in the AirTran way of trip dropping, that's for certain. The ability to straight-drop a trip if the coverage is positive is certainly nice. Of course, with the reserves we're carrying it's not a problem, they'll just assign it to a reserve before the 48 hour run-down for Premium Pay so it never goes Premium.

Overall I like their system better, but it would be nice to be able to straight drop and have open time available the entire month. It sure is nice to do 90% of my trading in the first 24-48 hours after daily is open, have my line almost exactly like I want and able to give that schedule to the fiance' for monthly social calendar planning for the entire month and not waiting to see what I can snag 4 days prior.

Sounds like if you want to really work the system, you have to practically live on your computer???
Click to expand...

The awesome thing about ELLIT is you can trade a trip up until 4 days before you have to fly it...if you want to. If you like your line, and just want to pick up a little turn try monthly open time. If you are not thrilled with your line...or want to optimize it, the 25th when ELLIT opens, you can take your schedule and add 10 trips to it easily without loosing a day off. Or turn a 2-day into a 3-day, wich is what you wanted to do anyways. When you do that then I can take my 3-day and turn it into a two day. You win and I win, without seniority getting in the way. Also, trip trade giveaway can help you get rid of a trip .

I rarely run into a situation where I can't get what I need off (sick time has nothing to do with this). If I know about something before the 25th of the previous month I can make it happen 9 times out of 10. The one thing I have learned as a junior guy is that first hour of ELLIT on the 25th is by far the most important hour of the entire month. Usually after that hour I have what I need for the next month...and if I feel like picking something else up later, trip trade giveaway or open time are my resources. Even ELLIT can help.
 
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Just to clear this up. So are you saying all swap/drops must be done by the 25th? Or can you do it into your flying month on a 24/7 basis. I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you have daily open time?
 
Toecutter said:
Just to clear this up. So are you saying all swap/drops must be done by the 25th? Or can you do it into your flying month on a 24/7 basis. I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you have daily open time?
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No, trip trading with the company BEGINS on the 25th of the month prior, and then runs continuously though-out the month.

Trading with other pilots begins even earlier in the month.

Yes, its 24/7.

Yes, there is daily open time, but that is quite different than the trip trading that begins on the 25th.

There's also Monthly open time and a few other ways to gain/loose/maneuver trips.
 
Toecutter said:
Just to clear this up. So are you saying all swap/drops must be done by the 25th? Or can you do it into your flying month on a 24/7 basis. I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you have daily open time?
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the 25th is big because it's the day ELLIT opens for the following month. What that means is all of the trips that are uncovered for the following month are available for trade starting the 25th of the previous month. That's a big deal, they can be weekday trips, they can be juicy $$$ trips. So you can get your lame trips, and trade them with the trips on ELLIT. Thing is, usually by an hour after it opens on the 25th, most of the trips have been recycled...there are still gems depending on what you have but the good stuff starts to disappear. Most open flying migrates to the weekend, unless the Captain on the trip is a ******************************, then his trips start to appear even in the middle of the week. Its like trading stock, it really is.

By the 30 or 31st, now you must proceed with caution as ELLIT is full of landmines. Trips that would be awesome except for the captain flying the trip. Happens all of the time where a select group of captains trips are always on ELLIT. In Orlando a certain Rick and a certain Don's trips are always on ELLIT...guaranteed.
 
Just bid reserve and you will find out who is on the list :o) Funny part is that many of them don't realize they are on it. Can't help but smile a bit when the CPT goes "don't understand why the last two FOs called in sick"
 
Ky.BrownBourbn said:
BINGO, We have a winner, if you've already figured this out you're ahead of the game, some guys never get it and IF you want to be a "tournament level player" ie. game the system, you have to be a slave to the system, join a cartel, or get the "Sniper program" for the open time system...AND LIVING IN DOMICILE DOESN'T HURT!!!

Good Luck,
KBB
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Quick question...I'm moving to a base when I get over there. How far from the base would you consider too far a drive to take advantage of this stuff??? Looking at an hour and a half drive to the employee lot. Hope someday to join the exclusive "tournament level players club"!
 
Two hour call out is the rule, you can usually 'check in' from the parking lot if needed, as long as your on airport property.

If on reserve, they will sometime push it. Ask you to head right to the gate. But it's your contractual right to say NO. Saying.."I have two hours to check in." Which is one hour prior. That's your call and sometimes it's cool to help out but it depends on your travel time.

That's funny about people not knowing they are on the list. I completely agree.
 
Why do we need to learn all this ********************t... ELITT, sniping programs, joining a cartel?
We already won the lottery, right?
 
UALX727 said:
Quick question...I'm moving to a base when I get over there. How far from the base would you consider too far a drive to take advantage of this stuff??? Looking at an hour and a half drive to the employee lot. Hope someday to join the exclusive "tournament level players club"!
Click to expand...

Be careful, we have no base rights nor right of return, unless you are buried in the bases seniority list, there is the possibility of being displaced! We have guys that have been displaced for 5 plus years(Captains), and everytime a group gets together to try to get ROR, they get laughed at by the union because the senior guys say it "disrupts seniority"! Ie. they can't move their boat south for the winter or bid from a base where they are very junior to a base where they are senior in August so they can get choice vacations and once awarded, immediately bid back!

"tournament Level Players Club" has its privileges but it can take a lot of work, flew with one last week, 200 trips plus a month but it takes a lot of work and right now there's not a lot out there...probably easier to join a Cartel but they are very discrete on new membership!

Good Luck,
KBB
 
freightdogfred said:
Why do we need to learn all this ********************t... ELITT, sniping programs, joining a cartel?
We already won the lottery, right?
Click to expand...

You don't have to learn any of it, that's the beauty of it, their are plenty of guys that just fly their line, nothing wrong with that!

All the other stuff is like the "power play" in the lottery, "so you want to Double your pay" click here!

My first year here (on probation of course) I get assigned a reserve trip, one leg the first day that is only 45 mins. In length. The capt. Gets it at premium (the system has changed a lot but in the good old days scheduling would call the guys who they know could make push time first) so the trip pays 19.5 but at premium it pays 26. We get to talking and he had come of a three day premium trip that morning, one leg from St. Louis. Our trip is his last of the month. He has got 240 trips (hours basically) of pay for the month and has blocked on 84 hours of flight time. The FA asks him how much money is that for the month and he says "before taxes and without per diem it's $44k!" I just started laughing. He asked what was funny and I explained to him that was more than I'd make my first year here! (I actually made way more because I learned the system and picked up half of every month at second year pay!)

Long story short, you can work as little or as much as you want here!!! Say you're a captain and wifey wants a new pool, work your a$$ off one month and pay for it! Stories floating around of guys working over their vacation last summer with 300+ trips and gross income for the month over $60k but I can't confirm that. (yes, you can work over your vacation here but me personally prefer my time off!)

Good Luck,
KBB
 
Lear70 said:
Sniping Program? Tell me more... :)
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I've seen it but don't have it, think its an android product, heard theirs one coming for the IPhone. Flew with a Cappy that had it, he says it's $10 a month and easily makes him a $1000 a month but I can't confirm!

Good luck,
KBB
 
There are some things that you can do at AT that you can't do at SW but that's understandable because AT has 25%+ of the pilots in each assignment on reserve. Personally I would prefer the SW system where there are more (very efficient) lines and less reserve....it's hard to fly beyond guarantee on reserve and make any money. The high reserve percentage and inefficient schedules at AT represent millions of dollars in above guarantee money that is not being earned by a sizable percentage of the pilot group. How many pilots at SW go for essentially YEARS only earning guarantee like the AT reserve pilots will be doing?

At one division of the company we have highly efficient lines that pay well with lots of days off and a small reserve percentage. At the other division where the pilots are doing the same job we see inefficient lines with lower pay, less days off and tons of pilots on reserve making guarantee. The bad news is that at AT is going to just keep getting worse as the airplane count decreases and more flying is moved to SW.

AT and SW are two totally separate planets in the SWA corporate solar system. It's going to be a long, bumpy road for the decreasing number of pilots stuck on the AT side as the company unwinds, things will get worse for these folks long before they get better.
 
Ky.BrownBourbn said:
Say you're a captain and wifey wants a new pool, work your a$$ off one month and pay for it!
Good Luck,
KBB
Click to expand...

I could say I'm the emperor, but the Kulture Kommittee has ensured I won't be seeing the kapitan's seat for quite some time, if ever.

messueris vestro, quid seminat, seminare
 
Ky.BrownBourbn said:
Long story short, you can work as little or as much as you want here!!! Say you're a captain and wifey wants a new pool, work your a$$ off one month and pay for it! Stories floating around of guys working over their vacation last summer with 300+ trips and gross income for the month over $60k but I can't confirm that. (yes, you can work over your vacation here but me personally prefer my time off!)
Click to expand...

True, MDW mid level Captian, 43000 number. Worked last summer over vacations every other week. June was about 298 and July was 348. That was about 120k in two months. Saw his board first hand. Good for him, it's nice to be able to do this if you please.
 
Is there a phone alerting system for when a trip appears in Open Time or Elitt that meets certain parameters that you've set?

For example, at AT, we use the FLICA system, which a bunch of other airlines use as well. Awesome and easy to use. One of the items is called Flica Alert. You set up the parameters and then Flica notifies you via text message the instant a trip appears in Open time no matter if that trip is a result of Crew Scheduling building it, a sick call, a pilot self-drop, or whatever. You get on your smartphone, access Flica in a few seconds, and bam..it's yours if someone else hasn't beaten you to it. No seniority, cartel, or gaming nonsense; simply first come, first serve.

Just curious to know if there is anything at SWA like that?
 
waveflyer said:
AT system sounds better.
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I truely hope that SWA & SWAPA will approach this with an open mind and be willing to look at and study the possibility of bringing FLICA over to SWA. If it is shown to benefit our Internal Customers, then it should be given a shot at implementation.

I'm sure that the fine folks at FLICA would be happy to set up a full on demonstration with all parties. One important thing to note - FLICA can do A LOT of stuff, but it is up to the particular airline's management to decide which "switches" they want turned on. This is where SWAPA Scheduling Committee would need to shine in order to ensure full access and transparancy.

If SWA truely wants to get serious about state of the art I.T., this would be a prominent spoke in the wheel.
 
Being able to flat out drop trips would be nice- and in the scheme of things, wouldn't cost much bc most pilots have a target tfp to reach every month- somebody will do the dropped flying-
What restrictions are there? I wouldn't imagine every pilot at AT can drop on Christmas ...
Apologies if it's been covered, but I've been a bit unplugged
 

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