SWA and type rating. Is this PFT?

[pilotyip]

Why the 737 type

This goes way back in the SWA history. At a small airline that does not possess DPE authority, the FAA has to give all of the type rating PC's. This is a pain in the butt; they are hard to schedule. The then the local Fed can not cover and you end up with a guy from the MIA FSDO who you have never seen before who has 7 different things he wants to see than the Fed from DAL. So back then if you started at SWA with a type in the 737, the company PPE could give you your initial PC and the Feds would not have to be involved. We deal with this on our DC-9 types and we often wait days to finish checkrides, because of FAA scheduling. Therefore, that could be why SWA may have made the type a requirement early on

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Harsh words to write based on hearsay supposedly from a SWA Pilot Recruiter from an anonymous soul on a bulletin board"

If it is hearsay and not true, who cares? If a Pilot Recruiter actually said this, they do need to get a clue....especially if they are not a pilot and have no clue what it's like to try to get a flying job.

I am tired of mindgames played by companies to try to "weed out" people...like "ooooh, gotta do this so they know you really want to work there" Give me a break!

"p.s. I'm not saying I expect USA3000 to have problems, but a 25+ year career is a long time for an airline to survive... Eastern, TWA, PanAm, and now it looks like USAirways and maybe United continue to prove that."

That's exactly why I wouldn't breathe easy at any airline until I hit my 60th birthday....all the goodies could be gone in the blink of an eye. All you need is some yahoo to come in, pack his golden parachute and poof.....it's all gone. I think SWA is a great airline and I hope everything there goes well for everyone. I have friends there myself. I just think they are getting a little high on their horse when it comes to hiring. I know a few wonderful people that have gotten their types and gotten turned down. It's like WTF do you people want? I know can't just hire everyone just because they paid for their type but when you hire 2 out of 12....something is wrong there.

By the way, PFT or not, it definitely pays for itself if you do get hired.

 

[English]

Personally, I think it's a good idea that companies like Southwest, Alaska and Aloha try to weed out people that don't really have their heart into working for that company. The last thing I want to do is fly with someone who keeps talking about how much better it is somewhere else. If I have to jump through hoops to prove I really want to work somewhere, it's fine by me, because it means everyone else employed at that company had to do the same thing.

This (my current employer) is the first place I've ever worked where people don't talk about getting hired somewhere else. I really like it. I say let the hoop jumping continue!

And, Capt. Megadeth, while you have the right to any opinion you choose, and I respect that, I think your tone was a bit offensive to some. You did use the term "idiot" when refering to a SWA HR gal. It just wasn't necessary to make your point. I think it's up to all of us to keep this board friendly and professional.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"And, Capt. Megadeth, while you have the right to any opinion you choose, and I respect that, I think your tone was a bit offensive to some."

Man, it's a good thing I just wrote it and didn't say it....then people would really hate me. I didn't mean to offend anyone. English, you are right, I didn't have to say she was an idiot. I don't think that getting your 737 type necessarily shows that you want only want to work for SWA. I know plenty of people getting their types that only showed an interest in SWA when they really started to outshine all of the other airlines. Before that, they all wanted to go to the majors. Maybe that's why they are turning down people left and right....hmmmmmm.

 

[Yahtzee]

If it is hearsay and not true, who cares?

I care...as you called my co-workers and friends "idiots" based on hearsay from an anonymous poster on a board. Is it too much to ask you not to direct your insults to folks who have done nothing to you?

Yahtz

 

[capt. megadeth]

Yahtz,
Please read my last post...

 

[BobbyB]

*****STANDBY FOR SARCASM******

Forget the type rating, I can't believe that Southwest FORCED me to pay for my own ATP! It is one big shakedown.

*******SARCASM COMPLETE*******(For those who might think I was being serious, I thought I would put the discliamer to save the next 75 posts telling me how stupid I am)

 

[LearLove]

While everyones at it I guess I'll toss in my useless comment:


First I don't really care about the PFT thing, my comment is directed to the people with the arguement of: "having the type lets the recruiters know who really wants to work there or not."

If that was the case then why do they turn down guys with the type? Also plenty of guys in the last hiring boom left for either (Delta, AA, UAL ect...) they all had the type and they left.

 

[capt. megadeth]

What about the people that really want to work there but can't afford the type?

 

[miles otoole]

What about the people that really want to work there but can't afford the type?

Are you kidding? If one REALLY REALLY REEEEEEAAAAAAALLLLLYYYYYYYY wants to work at WN, they'll find a way to afford the type.
Heck, go sell your engagement ring or pawn a kid or 2.

 

[canyonblue]

Yea,

Were all worried about a requirement that, unless you already were typed in a 737, may require an investment of $7000. I would rather go after the big bucks and have all airlines remove that stupid college degree requirement thereby saving us at least $40,000 and more. And then, yea that stupid ATP, look I saved an additional $1,500. Lets make this job available to the general population, not just the select few who have built their way up to the top of the profession, but the absolute bottom.

 

[SWAnging]

A recruiter once told me that SWA hires for Attitude...as well as other things.

 

[SWA/FO]

You've got to be cool to work at SWA. You only have a couple of hours to show how cool you are. If your coolness does not come out during the interview process and upon further review, other people (background checks) think your coolness factor is not there - you will not be hired, even if you paid 20,000 for your type.

There are tons of great guys/gals out there that should be working here but something happened during the interview process and the company didn't have a good feeling about bring them on. I can only speak for myself but I f*cked up 3 of my first 5 airline interviews at various carriers until I got lucky and got hired by Air Tran and Southwest. Keep trying if it is what you want.

 

[TexaSWA]

"having the type lets the recruiters know who really wants to work there or not." If that was the case then why do they turn down guys with the type?

Because a strong desire to work for SWA does not guarantee that someone is not a complete tool.

[/QUOTE]Also plenty of guys in the last hiring boom left for either (Delta, AA, UAL ect...) they all had the type and they left.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that was a solid decision.

 

[Mugs]

Because a strong desire to work for SWA does not guarantee that someone is not a complete tool.

Also plenty of guys in the last hiring boom left for either (Delta, AA, UAL ect...) they all had the type and they left.[/QUOTE]Yeah, that was a solid decision.[/QUOTE]

I suppose you had it all figured out and posted that same "solid decision" opinion right here on this board back in 1998.

 

[crudzilla]

PFT--catch a clue!

Well said to Enigma & Yahtz on your posts,

I paid no money to SWA or Anyone associated with SWA for my type--did I miss the money--he!! yes! Do I wish I had it back?--he!! yes! Buck up whiners. The rules of the game have changed (in corporate terms, they've moved your cheese). Other carriers are now emmulating low-cost carrier structure in reduction of training and operating cost. Pay your nickle and take your chances!

 

[Chest Rockwell]

It is not PFT. SWA receives absolutely no credit for the type in how it does new hire training. It did have a benefit in our insurance rates, but I believe that is no longer true (I do not recall why, I just remember it discussed). A few of the Morris pilots did not have types and had no special training when they came aboard, other than a type ride whith their upgrade check.It is a gamble. We all know great people who did not get hired for whatever reason and it breaks my heart. But if it pays off, a pilot hired today will make over a million dollars in his first ten years. That's over $1,000,000.00. That is by flying nothing extra at today's rates and not getting captain pay until years 8-10 (which is fairly conservative.

I bought mine when you had to do the bounces in the airplane (B-737 renal rates were $53/minute. I spent about $9,600 on mine including expenses. I was still driving the car that I had since high school, living in a 340/month apartment, and single. Used all of the savings that I had, a 401(k) loan, and one of those "checks" that you get with your credit card bill.

 

[TexaSWA]

Also plenty of guys in the last hiring boom left for either (Delta, AA, UAL ect...) they all had the type and they left.

Yeah, that was a solid decision.[/QUOTE]
I suppose you had it all figured out and posted that same "solid decision" opinion right here on this board back in 1998.[/QUOTE]
Only hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Whoa! I never said it was a solid decision. It was, as I said in my earlier post, a gamble and I was lucky. I spent money that I did not have on an uncertain prospect. I lost plenty of sleep over it. I would not encourage everyone that wants to work at SWA to get a type unless you can live with the two possible outcomes. The fact that I did not have a family to support at the time made my decision easier, but still not easy. I got the type, applied, interviewed, and went on about life as if I would be turned down. Fortunately, it got hired and I am thankful to be on the inside. If I knew all the squares to fill out that would guarantee anyone a job, I wouldn't hesitate to post them here.That's life, there are no guarantees.

CR

 

[miles otoole]

That's life, there are no guarantees.

CR

They should make every new flight student read this, sign it, and initial it every year of their flying career.

 

[Cosmo1999]

The horse is dead, let it go. Having a type is a requirement and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[H25BCPTN]

Food for thought. How would everyone feel if all the airlines required a type in a AC that they have in the fleet? FedEx 727, Northwest DC9, United 777, Southwest 737, Jet Blue A320 and so on. If other airlines see that it is working so well for SouthWest then they might follow.

It might seem little crazy but alot of people on this board feels that if you buy a type, it means that you must want the job more than another pilot that might not be able to buy the type. I think you can do a better job of weeding the pilots that really want the job with who has been trying to get hired the longest.

Example: Mike could have just gotten his type rating from his last job and was let go. He applies at SouthWest only be in the application pool a very short time because of his total time. Does Mike want the job more than someone else who put it in as soon as they met the min. time requirements and has the same total time?
So as one put it, does Mike Reaaallllyyyy want the job?

Again Food For Thought.
Fly Safe

 

[RVR300]

Boys, you're going on and on about nothing. SWA requires the type for you to get a groundschool date. Period.

Do guys with types get first dibs for interviews? Yes, that's simple logistics.

Could I afford the type rating when I got mine on the chance of getting an interivew? NO! But everything pilots do (or have done) is about marketability. We go to school, put in the time, upgrade to get the PIC time, etc. If you want to roll the dice and apply without the type, then go for it. But if you feel you are SW material--really feel you are-- then you're probably the guy that's going out and getting the type and figureing out a way to pay for it. If you're on the sidelines saying 'yeah SW would be cool, JetBlue would work, maybe the cargos... then figure out what it is you want.

The SW model isn't for everyone. But if you want to have fun, fly a lot, have a lot of days off, and more importantly work for a company where everyone gets along and gives 110% BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, then you're a good candidate.

If you're looking for a temp job until your furlough gets recalled, then not so much.

We've traditionally hired about 1 in 12 that intervew (that's what they told us when I was hired). We have thousands applying for the job right now. And a ton of guys have type ratings.

It all comes down to who you are on the inside. I've flown with astronauts and crop dusters here at SW. It isn't what you've got in your logbook fellas. It's everything else.

 

[lawfly]

SW and type rating. Is this PFT?

Hey, at least it's a profitable airline. I would buy the type now if getting hired was plausible or certainly if I received an offer contingent on the type. Actually, the 1,000 turbine PIC would seem more of an obstacle for many. That is a current requirement of theirs, the 1000 PIC turbine? I seem to recall the 737 type being required (at least de facto) at SWA as far back as around 1979-1980, when I did a little flight instructing at Love Field and knew someone who got hired at Southwest. I later side-stepped into law school and spent more than the equivalent of a 737 type for a law degree. Nothing is guaranteed. Want to talk salary, benefits, educational costs, etc.? I'm self-employed. Lots of freedom, but no salary, no benefits (unless I pay for them), and the education costs a lot (although cost me less than the folks who have gone to school in say the last 10 years or so). Sounds like the 737 type can be compared in a way to the California Bar exam, which had a 28% pass rate when I first took it: when you are an applicant, it's unfair, etc. When you are an admittee, then everyone should have to go through it. Something like that. Anyway, best to you guys.