SWA and type rating. Is this PFT?

[TrumanSparks]

FO,

You forgot: stock options, profit sharing, 401k contributions, medical, job security, quality of life, have we missed anything.

Yep I really feel bad that I paid for my training, Oh wait a minute I have pay stubs that prove SWA paid ME while I was in training. Sure I had to have a 737 type on my certificate before walked in the door.

Sorry if this sounded bad, but this PFT is getting old. GET OVER IT.

K&S was owned by two SWA pilots, they sold it to a retired SWA pilot over a year ago.

 

[SWA/FO]

I was thinking of adding all that stuff but since we don't have a defined benefit plan, I didn't want anybody laughing at me. Oh wait, nobody has one?Yes, I forgot about getting the company paid hotel stay and paycheck during training. Ask (the ones that remember) those DAL guys that have to rent rooms in ATL while they are in training.

 

[TexaSWA]

A few months ago I was talking to a SWA recruiter. She said the reason they require the type rating so they can see who really wants to work for Southwest. Is it PFT? Probably a form of it.

I think you missunderstood her. The recruiters have nothing to do with setting the minimums. An applicant that has the type does indicate a strong desire to work for SWA, but it has nothing to do with the actual reason for the requirement.

From what I understand the requirement was in place when we first started up and was never subsequently removed. There are always rumors resurfacing about it being removed, but I wouldnt hold my breath in this market.

I dont agree with the requirement, but its the best investment ive ever made.

 

[getonit]

I guess I should have been more clear in my question and what I was looking for, I made the mistake of saying "PFT" and that sets off the alarm bells, so let me include Jesus, RJDC, scope, unions, teamsters, Democrats, Republicans and gun control to make sure we don't confuse any facts with opinions. Someone else has made a statement and that is that SWA is able to lower their training costs because everybody is already typed. For example, do SWA new hires only spend 15 hours in the sim versus AA or DAL (if they ever hire again) or any of the LCC's. That is my question.

Thanks.

 

[Mach 80]

Full training program just as anywhere else, but SWA wants everyone typed in order to get lower insurance rates.

 

[Lear70]

"She said the reason they require the type rating so they can see who really wants to work for Southwest"

Yeah and you spend $8000 and they still don't hire you. Maybe the recruiter should work her a$$ off for all her certificates, get into thousands of dollars into debt, get a 737 type rating and get turned down by SWA.....maybe then the idiot will have a clue!

So I take it you aren't going to try again a 2nd time? I think a 2nd chance at SWA, if successful, would be a better option than a lifetime's career at USA3000 (if they survive that long).

p.s. I'm not saying I expect USA3000 to have problems, but a 25+ year career is a long time for an airline to survive... Eastern, TWA, PanAm, and now it looks like USAirways and maybe United continue to prove that.

 

[Yahtzee]

His argument is that SWA is able to lower their training requirements because everybody is already typed in the 737. Is that true or not?
Thanks.

The FAA credits SWA for some groundschool because all their pilot have a B- 737 type. Credit = cost savings. They also get reduced rates from insurance underwriters because of the type-rating requirement.

Just the facts...and one opinion from a guy who I hope has an accurate crystal ball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=1879648

Yahtz

 

[English]

I'll throw .02 in towards trying to help answer getonit's question.


For comparision against another all-737 carrier - Aloha has three days of ground school on systems, and four simulator sessions. There is reference in our training manual about a past requirement for a 737 type rating for employment. A ground school instructor told me our training program is so short because after the type rating requirement was dropped, the company figured that since everyone was already getting through on the reduced training schedule in place, so there was no reason add more simulator sessions or ground school time.

I'm not familiar with SWA's training, however.

 

[AA717driver]

They don't require a type to get hired. They require a type before you go to work there. The requriement has been in place since the mid-80's.

I have my stuff in there. I didn't get the type from the WIA. I will pay for it if I get hired and decide to go to SWA. It sucks but it's a requirement to work there and they would drop it if they were hurting for people.TC

 

[Falconjet]

Semantics

I have to respectfully disagree with AA on one minor point. You aren't "hired" at SW without the type. You are given a conditional job offer contingent on your obtaining a type within 6 months and assuming that there is actually hiring going on once you have your type and you arrive at the top end of the pool list. Those are two big ifs that you can't feed your family on. You aren't "hired" until you are sitting in class with a seniority number and a paycheck on the way.

So you can pass the interview, pass all the background checks and be eligible to be hired, but until you obtain the type you aren't even in the hiring pool. Once in the hiring pool, you still aren't hired until you are in Dallas in your suit with the big smile on your face.

And by the way, in my opinion (as I've expressed several times in other threads on this topic) is that requiring a type rating to get hired is not pay for training. Just one more opinion.

FJ

 

[pilotyip]

Why the 737 type

This goes way back in the SWA history. At a small airline that does not possess DPE authority, the FAA has to give all of the type rating PC's. This is a pain in the butt; they are hard to schedule. The then the local Fed can not cover and you end up with a guy from the MIA FSDO who you have never seen before who has 7 different things he wants to see than the Fed from DAL. So back then if you started at SWA with a type in the 737, the company PPE could give you your initial PC and the Feds would not have to be involved. We deal with this on our DC-9 types and we often wait days to finish checkrides, because of FAA scheduling. Therefore, that could be why SWA may have made the type a requirement early on

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Harsh words to write based on hearsay supposedly from a SWA Pilot Recruiter from an anonymous soul on a bulletin board"

If it is hearsay and not true, who cares? If a Pilot Recruiter actually said this, they do need to get a clue....especially if they are not a pilot and have no clue what it's like to try to get a flying job.

I am tired of mindgames played by companies to try to "weed out" people...like "ooooh, gotta do this so they know you really want to work there" Give me a break!

"p.s. I'm not saying I expect USA3000 to have problems, but a 25+ year career is a long time for an airline to survive... Eastern, TWA, PanAm, and now it looks like USAirways and maybe United continue to prove that."

That's exactly why I wouldn't breathe easy at any airline until I hit my 60th birthday....all the goodies could be gone in the blink of an eye. All you need is some yahoo to come in, pack his golden parachute and poof.....it's all gone. I think SWA is a great airline and I hope everything there goes well for everyone. I have friends there myself. I just think they are getting a little high on their horse when it comes to hiring. I know a few wonderful people that have gotten their types and gotten turned down. It's like WTF do you people want? I know can't just hire everyone just because they paid for their type but when you hire 2 out of 12....something is wrong there.

By the way, PFT or not, it definitely pays for itself if you do get hired.

 

[English]

Personally, I think it's a good idea that companies like Southwest, Alaska and Aloha try to weed out people that don't really have their heart into working for that company. The last thing I want to do is fly with someone who keeps talking about how much better it is somewhere else. If I have to jump through hoops to prove I really want to work somewhere, it's fine by me, because it means everyone else employed at that company had to do the same thing.

This (my current employer) is the first place I've ever worked where people don't talk about getting hired somewhere else. I really like it. I say let the hoop jumping continue!

And, Capt. Megadeth, while you have the right to any opinion you choose, and I respect that, I think your tone was a bit offensive to some. You did use the term "idiot" when refering to a SWA HR gal. It just wasn't necessary to make your point. I think it's up to all of us to keep this board friendly and professional.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"And, Capt. Megadeth, while you have the right to any opinion you choose, and I respect that, I think your tone was a bit offensive to some."

Man, it's a good thing I just wrote it and didn't say it....then people would really hate me. I didn't mean to offend anyone. English, you are right, I didn't have to say she was an idiot. I don't think that getting your 737 type necessarily shows that you want only want to work for SWA. I know plenty of people getting their types that only showed an interest in SWA when they really started to outshine all of the other airlines. Before that, they all wanted to go to the majors. Maybe that's why they are turning down people left and right....hmmmmmm.

 

[Yahtzee]

If it is hearsay and not true, who cares?

I care...as you called my co-workers and friends "idiots" based on hearsay from an anonymous poster on a board. Is it too much to ask you not to direct your insults to folks who have done nothing to you?

Yahtz

 

[capt. megadeth]

Yahtz,
Please read my last post...

 

[BobbyB]

*****STANDBY FOR SARCASM******

Forget the type rating, I can't believe that Southwest FORCED me to pay for my own ATP! It is one big shakedown.

*******SARCASM COMPLETE*******(For those who might think I was being serious, I thought I would put the discliamer to save the next 75 posts telling me how stupid I am)

 

[LearLove]

While everyones at it I guess I'll toss in my useless comment:


First I don't really care about the PFT thing, my comment is directed to the people with the arguement of: "having the type lets the recruiters know who really wants to work there or not."

If that was the case then why do they turn down guys with the type? Also plenty of guys in the last hiring boom left for either (Delta, AA, UAL ect...) they all had the type and they left.

 

[capt. megadeth]

What about the people that really want to work there but can't afford the type?

 

[miles otoole]

What about the people that really want to work there but can't afford the type?

Are you kidding? If one REALLY REALLY REEEEEEAAAAAAALLLLLYYYYYYYY wants to work at WN, they'll find a way to afford the type.
Heck, go sell your engagement ring or pawn a kid or 2.