SWA and Age65... lets get this straight.

[Flopgut]

Flopgut,

That’s exactly what I have been talking about. Not one Southwest pilot has been able to articulate exactly why there are taking political action to change the rule. Why are they being this selfish and self centered with thousand of pilots still furloughed? Though individual pilots from the legacy carriers can go to Washington, the official positions of both APA and ALPA is NO to any increase in retirement age. SWAPA is the only major union pushing for the rule change and has been for a long time.

1) Is it a money issue?? I was told the average SW pilot is retiring with close to $3 mil.
2) Is it a flying issue?? If they want to fly so badly, why not just rent a 182 or fly overseas?
3) Is it a discrimination issue?? Explain to me why age discrimination at age 65 is any different than age 60?

We keep getting told how great everything is over at Southwest. Fine, I’m happy for them, but if it’s that great, then why do they feel the need to have to fly to age 65. If they want an extra million $$ then they should negotiate it in their own collective bargaining agreement.

Go ahead and keep telling me how awesome everything is over at Southwest, but something is terribly messed up when they have to go through political channels to fly into their retirement years. That alone tells me Southwest is not paying their pilots an adequate retirement plan. Talk about being in denial.

What is probably happening at Southwest, just as the 37 year UAL pilot mentioned in the article, pilots are pissing away their normal pay and then finding out they don’t have enough for retirement. That’s why Southwest needs some form and/or combination of A & B plans. I know their management has got them scared about different types of pension plans, so if they don’t like DB or DC plans, they should increase their 401K match. 7.3% is just not enough. It should be up around 10% – 15%. Furthermore, they just can’t keep counting on profit sharing especially with the bulk of their fuel hedges running out in less than 18 months.

Southwest is just starting their own contract negotiations – retirement should be at the top of their list.

AA767AV8TOR

I know some pretty senior SWA types, some look like they have money, some don't. An airline buddy of mine (non SWA) who knows these guys better told me they DO NOT have that much dough. I didn't believe it, I thought they were rolling in it. There is another thread on here where we covered it. Bottom line: I guess the guys with 20-25 years over there have around 1-1.5m, and they don't think it's enough.

 

[canyonblue]

Give it a rest. Pilots from Continental and American telling Southwest pilots how we need to negotiate, frickin priceless. I wouldn't take advice from you guys on where to eat in the terminal. uke: uke:

 

[canyonblue]

Fine, I’m happy for them, but if it’s that great, then why do they feel the need to have to fly to age 65.

I know this is a strange concept for you guys to grasp, coming from where you guys work, but most Southwest pilots actually enjoy coming to work. Even if you gave these guys $100,000 a year to stay home most would choose to keep flying at Southwest. You guys cannot relate to that since you have never experienced it in your lives. I can also see where you guys are coming from, the airlines you work at and the environment you are in every day at work. I can see you guys wanting out at 55, and if I was employed at your carriers I would probably feel the same.

 

[Flopgut]

Give it a rest. Pilots from Continental and American telling Southwest pilots how we need to negotiate, frickin priceless. I wouldn't take advice from you guys on where to eat in the terminal. uke: uke:

Hey, It's not like you don't need a little help. You can't even say for sure that a majority of SWA pilots support the change at this point. And it seems none of you are going to press it because you don't want to embarrass SWAPA! I'll give it a rest when the crap your up to isn't opposite to the wishes of a majority of airline pilots. Stop screwing with my job, how's that?

Another thing: Your comment about CAL and 1983...What's your deal? You like Lorenzo? You like what he did? You think any other pilot group would have faired better with a corporate raider like that? That's a total separate issue, be glad you never had to deal with that sort of thing.

 

[Flopgut]

AA767aviator: Check out the thread that led to this: "SWA pilots aggressively push age 65". Pretty candid discussion of pay takes place.

 

[Flopgut]

I know this is a strange concept for you guys to grasp, coming from where you guys work, but most Southwest pilots actually enjoy coming to work. Even if you gave these guys $100,000 a year to stay home most would choose to keep flying at Southwest. You guys cannot relate to that since you have never experienced it in your lives. I can also see where you guys are coming from, the airlines you work at and the environment you are in every day at work. I can see you guys wanting out at 55, and if I was employed at your carriers I would probably feel the same.

Ok, I know your trying to be fair, but here is the deal: This job is built on a certain career span. We have to overhaul all pay and benefits if this goes through. And I'm concerned about what your going to do next. Bnhntn's equation is: 5yrs is = 1M. Well, lets say Jet Yellow shows up in 5-7 years and everybody's pay metrics change. Are pilots going to simply want to re-mortgage another 5 years? Then Jet Purple shows up? So on and so forth. Are we going to have to work til we are 75 for the same career dollars we had at 60?

And more to your point: Do you think SWA is always going to be the amusement park it is now? I'm not hoping to see it change for you, but what if it does? You have a lot of years left to work, this change happens and you HAVE to work past 60 to avoid a hit. It's bad legislation with short term thinking.

 

[scoreboard]

Stop screwing with my job, how's that?

.

Come on Flop, don't shoot the messenger, a little group called ICAO, which last time I checked we sign up to, changed the rule, not SWA, not SWAPA. If you at your company want it to stay 60, vote for it that way. Simple.

Again, I'm neutral to tending for change on 60, arguments for both sides. No, I don't know what a majority of SWAPA think, and i dont care what they think, what will happen will happen.

 

[scoreboard]

And more to your point: Do you think SWA is always going to be the amusement park it is now?

Nope. Changes already in the wind to make us just like every other Legacy WRT costs. Our only hope is our people factor, which is sadly not all I had hoped for, but by no means is less than stellar.

 

[scoreboard]

This job is built on a certain career span.

No, its not. Tell that story to your neighbor and see him laugh you back to your house. This job is built on seniority, you could end the ride any day from a medical to a FAR bust, to who knows what.

 

[Flopgut]

No, its not. Tell that story to your neighbor and see him laugh you back to your house. This job is built on seniority, you could end the ride any day from a medical to a FAR bust, to who knows what.

Bingo! It is about seniority, but this rule change gives it away. It makes seniority mean nothing. Maybe I should have said the earnings are based on a certain span. I think if we change the rule we should abandon seniority. That's how most ICAO countries do it. Of course, most senior captains who favor this change aren't too interested in that. Interesting.

Don't be getting down about SWA, that's my job! You'll be a captain and the dollars are on their way. It's the ones that come after us that are getting screwed we have to look out for, and do right by the ones who have already left.