SWA - AAI question

[Lear70]

Lear,

Maybe you should take another look at the Muse scenario. There was a negotiated list. It was not a staple. Their MEC rejected it.

The way to avoid a Muse scenario is to be reasonable and negotiate an integrated list in good faith. Stalling the talks and making unreasonable demands doesn't fit the bill.

Very true, and there's lessons to be learned there, for certain.

That said, I don't think we're making "unreasonable demands". Not everything I've heard from our MC is for discussion of course (and I'm sure they're not telling me anything privileged, but rather more direct and frank talk about what the updates mean), but from what I'm hearing, our requests aren't being met with hostility or rejection, simply normal negotiation responses in a very professional and positive way and vice-versa.

Again, I truly believe that cooler heads will prevail and, as far as the ISL goes, I think this will all be a memory this time next year, arbitration or not. I think you'll find that the vast majority of us will be just fine with what the MC's work out and the ones who aren't will retreat to Atlanta and camp out.

 

[dicko]

"I know it is hard to imagine but most of the SWA guys really want this to go well for both sides if it is going to go at all"


"Every SWA pilot I fly with, or they have flown with, or I share a crew change with, or we are down in the lounge before a trip, or down in the bar on the overnight express the same sentiments, they do not want this acquisition because of the apparent disrespectful attitudes of the AT work group generated largely on this forum."

Sad, but true.

"You want the job, and the pilots don't want you here. That is the reality."




Here's a few of your quotes. They contradict each other.

You have claimed that you speak for SWA pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics.

I suggest you march into Steve Chases office with your MC and put all your quotes on the desk. Picture their faces as they read them. They'll let you know how your helping to create a successful airline. Trust me.

 

[scoreboardII]

Captain AM pretty much sums up three months of my flying partners opinions as well: 100% against this deal, sorry, just like you guys are probably 100% for, wonder why.

We'll make it work, then we'll all be one happy family, but until then, even Gary says we are to remain competitors, for which I agree.

 

[dicko]

Captain AM pretty much sums up three months of my flying partners opinions as well. 100% against, sorry, just like you guys are probably 100% for, wonder why.

I understand the sentiment. Its delivery is venomous and wreaks of spite. Wrapped up in a level of arrogance that reminds me of a USAir East pilot.

O.K. I've run out of adjectives

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

"You want the job, and the pilots don't want you here. That is the reality."




Here's a few of your quotes. They contradict each other.

You have claimed that you speak for SWA pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics.

I suggest you march into Steve Chases office with your MC and put all your quotes on the desk. Picture their faces as they read them. They'll let you know how your helping to create a successful airline. Trust me.

I can tell you what the FA's and mechanics are saying to me. So I tell you what I hear. They are not on this forum so if I want to speak for them I will. You don't have to believe it. Although it is the fact. Any SWA pilot dispute this? Speak up please?

Steve Chase I am certain are reading AT pilots like your quotes and I know what his face looks like when he reads them. I know what ALL SWA pilots looks are when they read them. And my whole point all along that you want to label arrogant is that it is posters like you that is galvanizing our work group against this acquisition. Is it that difficult to understand?

We are a successful airline without you. So how are my posts afffecting that. It is your posts that could be harming yours and your co-workers potential of working for OUR successful airline. Get over yourself!

 

[dicko]

I can tell you what the FA's and mechanics are saying to me. So I tell you what I hear. They are not on this forum so if I want to speak for them I will. You don't have to believe it. Although it is the fact. Any SWA pilot dispute this? Speak up please?

Steve Chase I am certain are reading AT pilots like your quotes and I know what his face looks like when he reads them. I know what ALL SWA pilots looks are when they read them. And my whole point all along that you want to label arrogant is that it is posters like you that is galvanizing our work group against this acquisition. Is it that difficult to understand?

We are a successful airline without you. So how are my posts afffecting that. It is your posts that could be harming yours and your co-workers potential of working for OUR successful airline. Get over yourself!

You're not making any sense. You're also beginning to stutter -"afffecting". Are you getting emotional. Are you going to make some stickers ?

You don't speak for anybody but yourself. A guy who can't express himself, as himself. You think you need to pretend to speak for all pilots, flight attendants and mechanics to empower your views ? I'd be very surprised if you've been at SWA for 15 years. Very.

If you had a cogent argument then I'd be happy to listen. You don't. So you'll be ignored.

 

[PapaWoody]

I understand the sentiment. Its delivery is venomous and wreaks of spite. Wrapped up in a level of arrogance that reminds me of a USAir East pilot.

O.K. I've run out of adjectives

Not trying to play peacemaker (heaven forbid ), but I for one do think that this deal will be good for the company, and thus, to a certain extent, good for our pilot group (i.e. nothing impacts seniority like the company closin' down). However, I think that just as staple is a dirty word to you guys (with good reason), you guys must realize (and I think that you personally probably do, D) that relative seniority is viewed by us with the same vehemence, because it disregards the tangible differences in our career expectations. I am confident that our MC's can come to some kind of commonality, but in the end the famous SWA culture that we have cultivated is both of our groups responsibility to preserve.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[dicko]

Not trying to play peacemaker (heaven forbid ), but I for one do think that this deal will be good for the company, and thus, to a certain extent, good for our pilot group (i.e. nothing impacts seniority like the company closin' down). However, I think that just as staple is a dirty word to you guys (with good reason), you guys must realize (and I think that you personally probably do, D) that relative seniority is viewed by us with the same vehemence, because it disregards the tangible differences in our career expectations. I am confident that our MC's can come to some kind of commonality, but in the end the famous SWA culture that we have cultivated is both of our groups responsibility to preserve.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

I agree.

I don't completely believe in the career expectations reasoning. My reasoning actually has more to do with fairness and time invested. I'm talking about my dislike for Soccer of course. Not an SLI

I also understand why you feel that way. I've never heard an AirTran guy use the words "straight relative seniority".

I've heard staple many times.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

You're not making any sense. You're also beginning to stutter -"afffecting". Are you getting emotional. Are you going to make some stickers ?

You don't speak for anybody but yourself. A guy who can't express himself, as himself. You think you need to pretend to speak for all pilots, flight attendants and mechanics to empower your views ? I'd be very surprised if you've been at SWA for 15 years. Very.

If you had a cogent argument then I'd be happy to listen. You don't. So you'll be ignored.

You can spin this any way you want to satisfy any of your neurotic needs. Your immaturity is impossible to reason with. Anyone who uses an alias as "dicko" must have some esteem issues that will be impossible to reason with anyways.

From what I hear, The FA's don't like this, and the mechanics don't like this. I do not speak for them. Happy now dick-o?

My message is consistent. The voices here on Flight Info is contributing to the dislike of this acquisition from the pilots I talk to. 100% of them for a fact. I do not speak for them and others on here have openly agreed.

Good luck dick-o. I hope you are not screwing yourself out of a good opportunity. This purchase of your airline is far from over.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Not trying to play peacemaker (heaven forbid ), but I for one do think that this deal will be good for the company, and thus, to a certain extent, good for our pilot group (i.e. nothing impacts seniority like the company closin' down). However, I think that just as staple is a dirty word to you guys (with good reason), you guys must realize (and I think that you personally probably do, D) that relative seniority is viewed by us with the same vehemence, because it disregards the tangible differences in our career expectations. I am confident that our MC's can come to some kind of commonality, but in the end the famous SWA culture that we have cultivated is both of our groups responsibility to preserve.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

Good post. And you may be right. But then again that is the "crystal ball" in the airline business that has always existed.

Maybe dicko has Ty Webb on his ignore list so he hasn't seen how he defends relative seniority as being the only fair solution.