SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[PCL_128]

Greed is good.

Gordon Gecko.

You realize that he was the villain in those movies, right?

So, again, why is the strike vote irrelevant?

A strike vote is just part of the process. I had no expectation that we would actually have to go on strike. Taking a vote is just a step in the process towards asking the NMB for a release, which leads to "super mediation," which usually leads to a deal. In our case, I have no doubt that it would have lead to a deal. This management team was never going to take this to a strike. They were just going to take it to the brink to make their financial outlay as small as possible.

 

[scoreboardII]

You realize that he was the villain in those movies, right?

Yes, but did you see the second movie?:erm:

A strike vote is just part of the process. I had no expectation that we would actually have to go on strike. Taking a vote is just a step in the process towards asking the NMB for a release, which leads to "super mediation," which usually leads to a deal. In our case, I have no doubt that it would have lead to a deal. This management team was never going to take this to a strike. They were just going to take it to the brink to make their financial outlay as small as possible.

So you're saying, the strike vote got you a better contract, so it was relevant. Thanks.

 

[waveflyer]

How many times has Swapa had a strike vote?

Don't get it twisted- pilots for most airlines have to play that game and I respect the hell of the 95% vote.

But having to go that far and use those tactics is absolutely relevant bc it highlights the difference in working relationships.

It does seem that most of the arguments from AT are about what ifs- and possibilities. It "probably" wouldn't have gone to a strike. We will "probably" grow once combined. Etc etc. Whereas AT pilots will be getting our mgmt, our pay, our schedule- and I DON'T hate you for it AT ALL. But there IS a difference between "maybe","might" and "probably" AND "will happen".

It's like the old rap line: "you ain't gotta like me, you're just mad cause I tell it how it is and you tell it how it might be."

 

[PCL_128]

So you're saying, the strike vote got you a better contract, so it was relevant. Thanks.

Actually, the strike vote ended up not being relevant at all. Once the merger was announced, the NMB was done with any possibility of releasing us (politicians don't like messing with billion dollar transactions), so the strike vote became irrelevant. As a result of losing the leverage of NMB help, we ended up having to settle for a contract far less than we otherwise would have. The strike vote might as well have never happened, because it ended up playing no role whatsoever.

How many times has Swapa had a strike vote?

No one is disputing that management at Southwest behaves much differently than management at other airlines. The dispute is whether that should have anything to do with seniority integration. I think it's absurd to suggest that it should, but you obviously feel differently. That's why we have arbitrators in this business.

 

[waveflyer]

Absurd??
Are you ********************ing kidding me??
Look at everything that makes a pilot and person happy- this merger offers you time and schedule and money and life WITHOUT the fight.
Do YOU, PCL, even know how to conduct life as an airline pilot WITHOUT THE FIGHT? Do you even want line pilot life w/o the fight?

What is this offering Swapa pilots but a lot of maybes, mights, and probably's.

This is the kind of line where I tell my friends to look out for the subtle ways ALPA leadership will try to poison this deal- like ive said before- push comes to shove, get on the list. Don't let alpa tools who have always selected places to work where they can immerse themselves in drama and politics mess this up. Don't get mad. Don't think about the 2% better you might have gotten if you pressed a 1000x harder. Don't even think you aren't lucky. Just get on the list and ENJOY the ride. All will be well. But get on the list.

 

[PCL_128]

Absurd??
Are you ********************ing kidding me??

No, I'm quite serious. The fact that you've never had a strike vote has nothing to do with seniority.

Do YOU, PCL, even know how to conduct life as an airline pilot WITHOUT THE FIGHT? Do you even want line pilot life w/o the fight?

What fight? I'm not engaged in any fight. It seems to me that the SWA pilots here on FI are the ones who are looking to incite a fight. Look at redflyer continuing to issue threats. You don't see any AirTran pilots engaging in that sort of behavior. We're quite happy to let the process work as it was negotiated by all four parties. If we can't reach a deal, we go to arbitration. Whichever it is, I think 99% of the AirTran pilots will live with the result and go on about our business like adults. I'm not so sure that the same can be said of the SWA pilots here on FI, who are issuing threats and hardly embodying the culture that they claim to hold so dear.

Answer me this, wave: if this goes to arbitration, and the result is something you don't like (let's say you really don't like it), will you accept it and move on? Or will you start a riot and demand that the list never be accepted, despite the fact that the process agreement lays out final and binding arbitration as a step in the process? It's clear that many here would try to unravel the award. What say you?

 

[waveflyer]

I've been beating that drum since the beginning PCL-
I will accept it and move on. I understand that my life is fantastic at the bottom of this list.
But I will not concede that the fact I just stated isn't very different from the life of your FOs- or that that's irrelevant.
Since we're talking hypotheticals again- what about you? If you shoot for the moon and this deal doesn't work out- what will you do? Breathe a sigh of relief that you can stay on at ALPA? Do you think FAPA leadership served their members appropriately?

All this is mental - i do trust both our NC/MCs will do their job and we'll all be fine. Again, I predict you'll be ratio'd down from the DOH of your #1 guy in a way that leaves several hundred AT below CJ - and then we'll get down to the business of growing in ways that neither company has before.
Make no mistake- my message is a positive one- ALL of us are fine- we need to go through this process- but we're going to be great-
But remember- get on the list, PCL.
And no- our 1% are being no worse on here than your 1%- it's just FI- not reality.

 

[cole]

No, I'm quite serious. The fact that you've never had a strike vote has nothing to do with seniority.



If we can't reach a deal, we go to arbitration. Whichever it is, I think 99% of the AirTran pilots will live with the result and go on about our business like adults. I'm not so sure that the same can be said of the SWA pilots here on FI, who are issuing threats and hardly embodying the culture that they claim to hold so dear.

Wait just a second, you say 99% of Airtran pilots will be ok with a huge pay increase,job protection, and a superior contract no matter where you end up on the list? WOW you guys are quite the professionals!!!! If only SWA pilots were as professional to be happy with all the gains they receive..... which is status quo and 1700 new pilots who got hired without interviewing. It is sure gonna be a tough pill to swallow for the Airtran pilots, good luck.

 

[kwick]

It's obvious that Southwest is on the way down.

They always appeared reasonable, when Herb was around.

Now, they seem like a bunch of "cry-babies"

No "super-Seniority"

No "Seat-Grab on AT Captain seats.

Take DOH and be happy or it's gonna be relative seniority.

You guy's need to get back to reality!

 

[27 driver]

I don't. Our mgt does. After talking to Ron Ricks one of our VP's, he said it would not fit our biz model. I don't know why. After that question was asked the other pilot sitting next to me at dinner asked "when is South America and europe coming"? He stated soon! This was OCT of 2010. Don't know bro. The only thing I can think of, is SWA wouldn't be at the mercy of the city. You know, like by the balls! Same thing SWA has with AT now.LOL! Just pulling your leg.

Fair enough. :beer: