SW doesn't want Jet Blue at Love

[CBpilot]

Want to look at United's and Delta's rates from a few years ago. Everything changes but also stays the same. You are only as rich as your last pay check.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Southwest 12 yr CA pay $190/hr
Frontier 12 yr CA $157/hr
jetBlue 12 yr CA pay $139/hr

I believe that the SWA pilots get paid by the trip....not per hr. But lets also remember that the pay rate that the SWA pilots enjoy did not come about due to any "Summer of Love" or "United plus ___" type of campaigns.

Tejas

 

[SWA/FO]

This is out of the money section from todays USATODAY. It talks about WI-FI in the Airplanes:

Southwest would never spend the money for something they will not get back $$$$ People shop on price.

Q: How expensive is it?
A: Airlines have to spend $500,000 or more to equip a plane for the service. For financially ailing U.S. carriers, that kind of expense is out of the question. At $27 for 24-hour use, the service draws mostly business-class customers. About 20 individuals use it on a typical Lufthansa flight, Urbaniak says.

 

[HalinTexas]

Southwest 12 yr CA pay $190/hr
Frontier 12 yr CA $157/hr
jetBlue 12 yr CA pay $139/hr

Hmm.

12 yr. B6 Captains? Not hardly.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Hmm.

12 yr. B6 Captains? Not hardly.

Good point. Hope we make it to 12. Hope we get paid more along the way.

 

[canyonblue]

I believe that the SWA pilots get paid by the trip....not per hr.
Tejas

We do, but the conversion makes the Trip pay equal $190/hr.

TFP x 1.1393 = Hourly

 

[Dizel8]

This is out of the money section from todays USATODAY. It talks about WI-FI in the Airplanes:

Southwest would never spend the money for something they will not get back $$$$ People shop on price.

They do, but they like amenities as well, particularily is those amenities are cost efficient and provides a good bang for the buck, no pun intended.
SWA is very successful and very smart, but who knows, maybe there is another segment of the travelling population that is willing to pay three or five dollars more. How much does LiveTV cost jetBlue,is the cost of installation outweighed by higher ticketprices? The same could be said for inflight WiFi.

There may be plenty of people not interested, but then again, there may be plenty that are, particularily if the cost is considered a good deal. Starbucks certainly has plenty of people taking out monthly WiFi memberships.

Perhaps it is about differentiation, something that sets one company apart and makes the product more desireable.

 

[elag777]

This is out of the money section from todays USATODAY. It talks about WI-FI in the Airplanes:

Southwest would never spend the money for something they will not get back $$$$ People shop on price.

Small point but B6 already has the equipment in place and will use the Direct TV system to do it with with minor modifications.

 

[Mach 80]

You guys don't get it. There's no problem for SWA. With jetBlue and NWA raising a fuss over the compromise, everything's playing out just as Herb wanted. He can look good with "Hey, I tried to compromise and was willing to go forward with the agreement. I can't help it of Congress didn't pass it". And then the Wright amendment goes away even quicker than the compromise with the cities and AA and/or various senators go back to exempting THEIR cities for LOVE service which would be fine with SWA.

 

[Spectre]

What time frame are you getting load factor info from? 2001? FYI, our load factor this Friday is 91% baby !! 3000 plus flights! How many flights A DAY do you have?

Just reference your buddy Firstthird's comment:

Actually, I've always liked our 'industry leading' low LFs. I suspect that the only reason they are as high as they are now is us not being able to get any more 737-700s from Boeing or on the used market above our confirmed orders.

Traditionally we fly with lower load factors for a number of reasons.
1 - passengers like to have the middle seats open
2 - if a plane breaks, it enables us to 'flex' and get those people to their destination in the next 2-3 flights (assuming 60-65%) rather than the 10 flights it would take as an average of 90% LFs.
3 - gives us more upside during the high demand months (now) whereas we can still post a profit during the weak months (winter) at a lower load factor without substantially changing our route structure every few months chasing seasonal traffic.

So, short version, I think most SWA people would like to see our LFs down towards the mid 70s (assuming our breakeven LF is mid 60s) rather than mid or high 80s. Higher is nice for short term profits but starts to wreak havoc on our customer experience and we don't want that. You see, we don't have no fancy TVs in the back, and without the opiate of the masses to sedate our customers, we need good old fashioned customer service. I'm not saying that TV airlines don't have that also but I suspect a no TV with center seats open might be better than an assigned seat full plane with TV for a bunch of people.

 

[Spectre]

Well for the Southwest pilots who don't want to go there, I'll do it for you................

Southwest 12 yr CA pay $190/hr
Frontier 12 yr CA $157/hr
jetBlue 12 yr CA pay $139/hr

You gentlemen need to quit quarrelling about who has what in this industry, and start using that sentiment when it comes to your remuneration. We’ve got guys here worrying about how the latest porn tape would look so much better in Betamax.

...but you guys forget time + 1/2 over 70 hours at JetBlue 12 yr CA pay = $208.50/hour...Oh well, what's the point--there aren't any 12 year Captains at JetBlue anyway.

 

[SWA/FO]

You guys don't get it. There's no problem for SWA. With jetBlue and NWA raising a fuss over the compromise, everything's playing out just as Herb wanted. He can look good with "Hey, I tried to compromise and was willing to go forward with the agreement. I can't help it of Congress didn't pass it". And then the Wright amendment goes away even quicker than the compromise with the cities and AA and/or various senators go back to exempting THEIR cities for LOVE service which would be fine with SWA.

This is what I was trying to say...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

...when your fuel hedges start running out,

You mean they run out???? What do you know that the rest of us don't?

I've heard that the hedges are constantly being worked....and re-worked....and re-worked...and re-worked...

Tejas

 

[Flopgut]

You guys don't get it. There's no problem for SWA. With jetBlue and NWA raising a fuss over the compromise, everything's playing out just as Herb wanted. He can look good with "Hey, I tried to compromise and was willing to go forward with the agreement. I can't help it of Congress didn't pass it". And then the Wright amendment goes away even quicker than the compromise with the cities and AA and/or various senators go back to exempting THEIR cities for LOVE service which would be fine with SWA.

Either Herb Knows his political clout will later get him out of any compromise he makes now, OR he knows something worse could come later.

 

[Flopgut]

Let me be the first SWA guy (on this thread) to state that JB has the higher ground here and we (SWA) should retract that statement ASAP.

Good on ya. Even if it was a joke, it wasn't a good one and it didn't help the SWA cause.

 

[JBPA]

...but you guys forget time + 1/2 over 70 hours at JetBlue 12 yr CA pay = $208.50/hour...Oh well, what's the point--there aren't any 12 year Captains at JetBlue anyway.

Premium pay is INCENTIVE PAY! When comparing pay rates, we should only consider our minimum monthly guarantee (70 hours). Not everyone (including me) works 90+ hours/month.

 

[B6Driver]

The choice is there so if you wanted to, you could. All pay is incentive pay; why else would you come to work, I got bills to pay you know.

 

[JBPA]

The choice is there so if you wanted to, you could. All pay is incentive pay; why else would you come to work, I got bills to pay you know.

Defensive? Listen, I'm not harping on anyone who wants to work a lot. I'm simply saying that we shouldn't be using our 'blended rates' in comparison with other airlines. No more, no less.

On a related note, it'll be interesting to see how the -320 'overachievers' (er, I mean people with bills) react to the upcoming reduced targets.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I had to disagree with Spectre's [smug?] premium pay statement.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Defensive? Listen, I'm not harping on anyone who wants to work a lot. I'm simply saying that we shouldn't be using our 'blended rates' in comparison with other airlines. No more, no less.

On a related note, it'll be interesting to see how the -320 'overachievers' (er, I mean people with bills) react to the upcoming reduced targets.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I had to disagree with Spectre's [smug?] premium pay statement.

Reduced target? That's what the navy reserves is for.

Sorry, jbpa.

 

[Spectre]

Defensive? Listen, I'm not harping on anyone who wants to work a lot. I'm simply saying that we shouldn't be using our 'blended rates' in comparison with other airlines. No more, no less.

On a related note, it'll be interesting to see how the -320 'overachievers' (er, I mean people with bills) react to the upcoming reduced targets.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I had to disagree with Spectre's [smug?] premium pay statement.

I totally agree with you in that you have to compare apples to apples. I'm just trying to bring in the big picture here when you truely compare take home pay from one airline to the next.

JB's premium pay kicks in at 70 hours. At NWA, you didn't see it until after 82 hours. If you're only working 70 hours a month at JB then good on you. You wouldn't make too much at any airline today flying only 70 hours a month.

Furthermore, you must add 9 hours a month of PAY in PTO time that most other airlines don't have. That's pure pay if you PTO your trips or take the money on a 25% buy back. Now, all we have to work on is 6-8% matching 401K!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I totally agree with you in that you have to compare apples to apples. I'm just trying to bring in the big picture here when you truely compare take home pay from one airline to the next.

JB's premium pay kicks in at 70 hours. At NWA, you didn't see it until after 82 hours. If you're only working 70 hours a month at JB then good on you. You wouldn't make too much at any airline today flying only 70 hours a month.

Furthermore, you must add 9 hours a month of PAY in PTO time that most other airlines don't have. That's pure pay if you PTO your trips or take the money on a 25% buy back. Now, all we have to work on is 6-8% matching 401K!

Yeah Spectre. Don't be so defensive and smug. I'm with jbpa -- you are an embarrassment to the human race.

 

[JBPA]

Yeah Spectre. Don't be so defensive and smug. I'm with jbpa -- you are an embarrassment to the human race.

Dude,

You need to quit drinking and posting. Perhaps the money you save on booze (or is it Kool-Aid???....Mmmmmm) could be applied to the 2006 version of Hooked on Phonics.

First of all, the defensive comment was directed towards B6Pilot. Secondly, I thought that Spectre's post seemed a little smug (go back and re-read it...S L O W L Y). Perhaps it wasn't, and that's why I inserted the question mark. I have no idea where you came up with your last comment. Regardless, I wouldn't be bragging about our pay rates on the internet.

Spectre - thanks for the explanation. I'm glad we both agree on apples to apples.

Now wasn't this thread about JB at DAL? Personally, I'd like to see the WA repealed.

 

[Flopgut]

It's perfectly sane to go to the ends of the earth to relate SWA's TFP to an hourly rate, but JB's way of doing things is bogus!

Aren't both methods about productivity?

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest Airlines was a distant second

I didn't see this anywhere...the word "distant". You added it for effect, right?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Dude,

You need to quit drinking and posting. Perhaps the money you save on booze (or is it Kool-Aid???....Mmmmmm) could be applied to the 2006 version of Hooked on Phonics.

First of all, the defensive comment was directed towards B6Pilot. Secondly, I thought that Spectre's post seemed a little smug (go back and re-read it...S L O W L Y). Perhaps it wasn't, and that's why I inserted the question mark. I have no idea where you came up with your last comment. Regardless, I wouldn't be bragging about our pay rates on the internet.

Spectre - thanks for the explanation. I'm glad we both agree on apples to apples.

Now wasn't this thread about JB at DAL? Personally, I'd like to see the WA repealed.

Sorry about the hijack...

JBPA - You miss the point every time. PM me if you want to hear it away from this public forum. I honestly tire of your treatment. Otherwise you win jbpa. I am obviously not intelligent enough (hooked on phonics?) to see through your thinly veiled sarcasm, personal attacks and overreactions to everything your PEERS post on this board. I guess if I could see through all that, I would find a heart of gold.

As for your points, I never defend pay rates and I'm not addicted to kool aid. EDIT: go back and read all of my posts, I just did (now that's dorky).

Besides, all of this is a moot point considering we are two of many dorks looking at flightinfo.com on a FRIDAY NIGHT. WTF?

disclaimer: I overheard someone using the word "moot" once at a Tractor Pull and Mud Bog. Not sure what it actually means. Oh well.

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

Wait a minute, I'm looking at FI on a Friday night, and I have nothing else to add, sorry.

 

[JBPA]

Furthermore, you must add 9 hours a month of PAY in PTO time that most other airlines don't have. That's pure pay if you PTO your trips or take the money on a 25% buy back. Now, all we have to work on is 6-8% matching 401K!

Once again, I disagree on counting these as income. First of all, other airlines have VACATION. Also, they have sick banks. Remember, our vacation and sick time come out of our PTO bank. And OBTW, since we've been short for the 4+ years I've been here, I've always used my PTO to get to 70 hours since the targets have historically been 78-85 (versus working 85/month and selling it back).

I understand where you're coming from. However, it's a slippery slope to count these as income or even think that our 'blended rates' are significantly higher than our base rates when compared to other airlines. Like it or not, our compensation package is below average.

I totally agree on the 401K match, but I also think that there's more to improve on.

 

[elag777]

I didn't see this anywhere...the word "distant". You added it for effect, right?

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/060629/062906_airlines.html?.v=3

Sixth paragraph one line not done by me for effect.

"Southwest Airlines was a distant second, and Frontier Airlines was ranked at the bottom."

 

[SWA/FO]

the same article in USA Today said it was "close".

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

I don't know how many people this survey involved. But in theory, there are a lot more SWA Pax to ask opinions than JB. I have never flown JB but I understand it is a decent "product". SWA got there first in the sense of dominating the market the way they do. JB is getting in the "race" late. The concept of in flight entertainment is a good one since most pax could care less now about the "joy" of flying. SWA has done a good job of hiring good people and it is reflective in their efforts. But when your winning everything is great.....wonder what we'll all be saying five to ten years from now?