Surrender Certificate

[Cutlass1287]

So what happens if a pilot screws something up, but no one says anything, until he sends in the NASA report, and gets violated. Is it possible that no one even knew until he sent in the report?

 

[A Squared]

So what happens if a pilot screws something up, but no one says anything, until he sends in the NASA report, and gets violated. Is it possible that no one even knew until he sent in the report?

THe FAA is not supposed to do this, see 91.25. However, what is to prevent a fed from getting information through the ASRS which tells him where to look to start digging for information on a violation? Nothing, except of course the regulation. Unless you believe that the faa would never violate thier own regulations, you realize that there is at least some possiblity of ASRS info being used through the backdoor.

91.25 The Administrator of the FAA will not use reports submitted to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration under the Aviation Safety Reporting Program (or information derived therefrom) in any enforcement action, except information concerning accidents or criminal offenses which are wholly excluded from the program.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I've always understood that you are in no way shape or form EVER required to hand your certificate to a fed unless he presents you with a written emergency order of revocation.

 

[mnixon]

In my aviation law class, I feel that my prof made two mistakes (I think, if not it's my mistunderstanding). The major problem is that I am an undergrad and he is a local judge, so if it comes down to credibility on who to believe, I'm going to lose. So, I need some help finding a goverment publication (of some sort, can include court cases - actually perfered) that spells out the regulations on these two issues.

The first is that he said that you shouldn't physically give your pilot's certificate to the FAA inspector during a ramp check because it may be thought of as surrendering your certificate. I believe this claim to be false A quick search on these boards showed that I am in the right but I need proof of it somehow.

The second is that an ASRS form can't be used in an enforcement action against you and you get off the hook. I believe that an ASRS form's title can be used against you and that using the form only waives any action the FAA can take against you, you will still have it on your record.

You don't want to work for the FAA do you? That could change my answer.

 

[JAFI]

I've always understood that you are in no way shape or form EVER required to hand your certificate to a fed unless he presents you with a written emergency order of revocation.

Read:

61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.

(l) Inspection of certificate. Each person who holds an airman certificate, medical certificate, authorization, or license required by this part must present it and their photo identification as described in paragraph (a)(2) of this section for inspection upon a request from:

(1) The Administrator;

(2) An authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board;

(3) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer; or

(4) An authorized representative of the Transportation Security Administration.


--- Or, You could do it your way and maybe you'll get to see that letter of Revocation.....
JAFI

 

[CapnVegetto]

There you go....it says you have to PRESENT it. I've seen Vanna White present plenty of stuff on Wheel of Fortune without ever handing it to anyone. Here you go sir, look at it all you want, as long as it stays in my hand.

 

[JAFI]

There you go....it says you have to PRESENT it. I've seen Vanna White present plenty of stuff on Wheel of Fortune without ever handing it to anyone. Here you go sir, look at it all you want, as long as it stays in my hand.

Well, there you go.... The Vanna White defense. Please let us know if and when you are going to use this in court. I would pay to see that.
JAFI

 

[CapnVegetto]

OK, JAFI, this is from Webster's online dictionary:

Main Entry: pre·sent
Pronunciation: pri-'zent
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French presenter, from Latin praesentare, from praesent-, praesens, adjective
transitive senses
1 a (1) : to bring or introduce into the presence of someone especially of superior rank or status (2) : to introduce socially b : to bring (as a play) before the public
2 : to make a gift to
3 a : to lay (as a charge) before a court as an object of inquiry b : to bring a formal public charge, indictment, or presentment against
4 : to nominate to a benefice
5 a : to offer to view : SHOW b : to bring to one's attention <this presents a problem>
6 : to act the part of : PERFORM
7 : to aim, point, or direct (as a weapon) so as to face something or in a particular direction
intransitive senses
1 : to present a weapon
2 : to become manifest
3 : to come forward as a patient
4 : to make a presentation
- pre·sent·er noun

Where in there does it say that to present it, I have to PHYSICALLY HAND it to him? Nowhere. I especially like definition #5. To offer to view. "Here you go sir....I'll hold it, and you can view it all you want. Here, let me show you the back....and the sides....."

 

[JAFI]

Well then, your mind is make up.

Good Luck

JAFI

 

[Xav8tor]

The little card you carry in your wallet is merely proof that you have the right to do what an ATP does. The loss of the card itself, whether inadvertent or stolen (or somewhere between) does not mean you are no longer an ATP. There is even a procedure you can follow so that you won't miss that next trip when you realize you can't find your license. In order for you to lose the rights to exercise the privileges of your ATP will take far more than merely allowing an AUHTORIZED official to hold your cert. The attorney who wrote the AvWeb article(s) and JAFI on this board give excellent advice. Heed it. Lawfly's 2 cent opinion was worth a bit more than the price he quoted too!