Suppy and Demand and Unionized labor

[Skywest Pylot]

Unions can also keep a good place from turning bad.

Every CEO and management team in this industry has a legally binding contract guaranteeing their employment and compensation. The day I see these folks become "At Will Employees" (without a contract) then I may change my tune. Until then, I will insist on having the protections of a legally binding contract.

Question: Why would an employer not want its employees to have a contract?

Answer: So they can change pay, bennefits, etc on a whim.

What is good for Richard (Anderson), Gerard (Arpey), Glenn (Tilton), Larry (Kellner), Gary (Kelly), Doug (Parker), David (Barger), Chip (Childs), etc should be good for ALL pilots.

The only guarantees we have are those we get in writing. Talk is cheap. Hopefully someday my former SkyWest colleagues (and the folks at JetBlue) will figure this out.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Always looking for a managment position, eh yip....

I get the same impression. Guys who fight against the legal rights and protections of coworkers (strengthened by a legally binding contract) are usually either members of management or those who aspire for a management position (at all cost). I saw MANY of this type during my days at SkyWest. After advising the pilot group to make many a bad decision they were "magically" rewarded with a lucrative management position. If the measure of a man is his word and integrity, you can't get much lower than these guys. Very sad.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Are you accusing "them" of overgeneralizing, being narrow-minding and mischaracterizing someone or something because of the actions of a few?

Personally, my first experience with a union has been a good one. ALPA pilots are a good group of people. True, there are some selfish people who don't understand the meaning of teamwork and try to shove through personal agendas regardless of the long-term impact on the pilot group, but they are rare. Heck, any group has their share of asshats. We shouldn't let the actions of a few discolor the solid and good work of the majority.

My experience with unions involves many of them, not just ALPA. The common thread they all share is that the moment someone begins to speak out against the union, they immediately begin looking for ways to tarnish your reputation, or to threaten you to shut up. Now, the thug mentality is more prevalent in the other unions, but it is still there in the airlines too. I've seen it first hand. And the "burn it down" attitude is really prevalent, even after the Eastern experience. They sure did show Eastern! Yep. Full pay to the last day! Talk about asshats.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I would have fewer problems with unions in general if they would avoid thug tactics, and group thinking. They demonize anyone who thinks differently from them, calling them names, saying they are "scabs" etc. Come on, if you can't motivate people to be in your club by example or by positive means, STFU.

Sounds like corporate America..... go ahead.... question yor boss.... see where it gets you.... Your boss is nothing but an American citizen just like the rest of us... there is nothing special about someone who is willing to be a tool....

Corporate America is nothing but totalitarianism.... For a country that claims to be free, we readily stare at our shoes and say 'yes sir, how high sir' all for the glorious opportunity to earn a wage. Once that wage is earned and workers commit themselves to family and kids, they are compelled even more to keep their mouths shut and do what they are told...

Some freedom......

Corporations despise unions because they have to share access to govt with unions..... Corporations want exclusive access to govt sans unions, with massive amounts of campaign contributions.....

Some freedom we got here.....

 

[pilotyip]

Freedom

Some freedom we got here.....

I love our freedom, it lets you post whatever you want without a knock on your door at night just before you disappear.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I love our freedom, it lets you post whatever you want without a knock on your door at night just before you disappear.

how long do you justify our regressive status.... as.... "well, at least we aren't like the Nazis...."

 

[JoeMerchant]

My experience with unions involves many of them, not just ALPA. The common thread they all share is that the moment someone begins to speak out against the union, they immediately begin looking for ways to tarnish your reputation, or to threaten you to shut up. Now, the thug mentality is more prevalent in the other unions, but it is still there in the airlines too. I've seen it first hand. And the "burn it down" attitude is really prevalent, even after the Eastern experience. They sure did show Eastern! Yep. Full pay to the last day! Talk about asshats.

Well said...I too have seen this first hand. The minute you question ALPA or another union, the hardliners and chest thumpers come out guns a blazing. They attack the individual on a personal level in hopes of shutting them up. Different opinions are not accepted.

In addition, we harm our own leverage by tying our careers to one carrier without the ability to make lateral movements...Management has this ability...We don't...

There are too many people in union leadership positions that think like Rez O. Lewshun does...That harms all of us....

 

[xjlifer]

First thread past 3 pages I have read that was worth the time to read. ALPA as a union is IMHO good for national issues. Unfortunately the game that is played in Washington requires "special" skills. ALPA through the ALPA PAC has those skills. Are they perfect on the national scene. Nope but they have a voice which is something a bunch of splinter unions would never have.

On the SWA end there is not one of the people I know who work there that do not like it. They all have nothing but praise for that company. The folks I know at UAL,AA,NWA,DELTA all seem to have much more anger and resentment about their place of work.

Of course as in all cases YMMV

Enjoy the day

 

[pilotyip]

Regressive

how long do you justify our regressive status.... as.... "well, at least we aren't like the Nazis...."

Hey guys are we regressive?

 

[acaTerry]

gee and here I wanted to blame the leaches in the banking industry who hoarded billions of dollars among a small groups of individuals while producing no tangible goods or services for this mess..

...and the cheap azz travellers who want nonstop coast to coast service in a big seat with steak dinner and free bag checking for $99...

Nah, let's blame it on labor who expect to feed their family.