Support for other pilots and Simple Math

[GogglesPisano]

What Andy and Wave said.

 

[pilotyip]

+1 Andy
I also do and feel that academics in aviation are severely lacking- we ought to adopt Navy style aviation academics- and work on developing better judgement and people.

You mean like the pilot I flew with in the Navy, my PPC while flying around Vietnam, who did not have college degrees, and went on to a full career at DAL, with no lay offs, and flying as CA for 25 years? You mean those kinda of Navy style aviation academics?

And though Yip has made his arguments ad nauseum for an ignorant pilot corps who will rotely do as they're told in all matters

Your distain for non-college grads is obvious. It appears that you college grads are so smug about your degrees, why I bet you even do back ground searches before moving into a new neighborhood to ensure there is no one living there who does not have a college degree.

BTW Back in 1940 as the US was ramping up for WWII, Hap Arnold said all pilots have to have at least two years of college. The new Asst Sec of War for Air Robert Lovett, said first you will never fill the cockpits with these guys, and secondly, these are not the best material to man our cockpit. Lets have a test developed that tests for the things that pilots need to be successful. This became the standard Aviation Selection Test. They found the pass rate between college grads and non college grads were nearly identical. The test stressed, math, physics, graph reading, mechanics. Last time I checked the services were still using a similar test today to screen potential pilot training candidate that have a high potential to be successful.

HEY! Here is a great idea. Lets use this test to get the ATP, have to score at least one std dev above the mean. That would cut down the numbers

 

[Andy]

+1 Andy
I also do and feel that academics in aviation are severely lacking- we ought to adopt Navy style aviation academics- and work on developing better judgement and people.
The academic challenge and knowing standard deviations, classical humanities, chemistry, and ethics&logic doesn't always produce the better pilot in management's eyes- but the character and sense of the big picture developed when going through that difficult process does produce a much better pilot

You've expressed a lot of the reasons why I believe a 4 year degree needs to be a minimum requirement for pilots.

I understand what Pilotyip's saying - that a college degree doesn't make a discernable difference in pilot skills. Perhaps stick and rudder skills but I would definitely prefer an educated pilot.

 

[waveflyer]

He doesn't get it that I don't care as much about the piece of paper, as I do what's in the actual pilot's head and heart.

And he doesn't get that finding 1 example out of thousands isn't all that valid- looking at the aggregate- a college education is a very important determinant in success. For me, the world simply stopped spinning faster than me at some point in college-

No paper, no experience can guarantee finding that no stopping/no limits mentality- but each of us should strive to get there and stay there-

As for college: "no man and no mind is so great that he does not need others to expand and grow."

Where you find that is up to you- but the data shows that college is the best bet-
Though we can do better in terms of educating our youth

 

[jonjuan]

collapse our wages to prevent a startup from having any advantage.

Whats happeneing here happens everyday in every city with taxicab operators. Taxi drivers get what they get because the drivers work for crap wages and anyone who trys to improve those is undercut by the next entrant who undercuts wages.

Economics 101.

Agreed-it's how sw ultimately became what they are now.

 

[jonjuan]

The fix is to require higher standards in order to get an ATP.
For starters, I know of no profession that doesn't require a 4 year college education.

Plumber, truck driver, limo driver, professional athlete, ceo/owner fortune 500 company, football team owner, software engineer, etc., etc.
At the end of the day, it's still a manual job. Requiring "higher standards" doesn't necessarily translate to better pilots. Heck, doctors are facing the same thing with a glut of people chasing the same number of customers effectively lowering pay.

 

[jonjuan]

Make testing more difficult. The entire ATP written needs to be reworked to make it more equivalent to passing a state bar exam or state doctor's license exams/boards.
Overhaul the current AME system. A 99.9999999% exam pass rate is unrealistic.

You want higher wages? Raise the barriers to entry for pilots. And make current pilots meet the same high standards.

You are talking about artificial barriers with no relevance to anything meaningful. Why not reduce the eye requirement to 20/20 without corrective lenses? Why not make a height or weight a requirement as well?

 

[scoreboardII]

Agreed-it's how sw ultimately became what they are now.

Actually incorrect, SWA hit the underutilized markets, The MHT instead of BOS, the OAK instead of SFO. It would be like that taxi driver pulling up at the end of the curb and dropping you short of the destination, except, nobody would do that for a taxi. Only after the market was set did SWA come after the big guys into their own territories with their brand, which really didn't sell tickets for less, thats a mis perception. They killed them through lower costs..

 

[jonjuan]

Actually incorrect, SWA hit the underutilized markets, The MHT instead of BOS, the OAK instead of SFO. It would be like that taxi driver pulling up at the end of the curb and dropping you short of the destination, except, nobody would do that for a taxi. Only after the market was set did SWA come after the big guys into their own territories with their brand, which really didn't sell tickets for less, thats a mis perception. They killed them through lower costs..

Incorrect. LOL-keep living in your delusional world. Sw sucked off legacy pax for years by undercutting fares, fares subsidized in part by low labor costs. Why would anyone fly out of ISP, HOU, or DAL versus LGA, IAH, or DFW? Because of cheaper prices, NOT because of "underutilized markets." It was well known that a passenger would travel a few additional miles to save a considerable amount of money. You did read "nuts" didn't you?
A Very smart strategery indeed, one that the legacies ignored for years, but don't kid yourself that sw didnt push the low fare thing to the consumer to the detriment of the higher paying carriers.

 

[scoreboardII]

Incorrect. LOL-keep living in your delusional world. Sw sucked off legacy pax for years by undercutting fares, fares subsidized in part by low labor costs. Why would anyone fly out of ISP, HOU, or DAL versus LGA, IAH, or DFW? Because of cheaper prices, NOT because of "underutilized markets." It was well known that a passenger would travel a few additional miles to save a considerable amount of money. You did read "nuts" didn't you?
A Very smart strategery indeed, one that the legacies ignored for years, but don't kid yourself that sw didnt push the low fare thing to the consumer to the detriment of the higher paying carriers.

Incorrect, go look up niche, get back to us.