Supersonic Bizjets

crash-proof

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Hi there...

I just wanted to hear your opinions on a supersonic bizjet. I hear Gulfstream is laying down the prints for one, Sukhoi is or was involved in a study, and Dassault chickened out last year (I would have thought with their Mirage roots they would be most eligible.)

I can only imagine the enourmous development costs/manufacturer costs involved. :eek:
 

flywithruss

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Look at this month's Pro Pilot magazine, the one with the PRASE survey. During the roundtable discussion with the judges, several participants made excellent points about issues/limitations involved with an SSBJ.

Among the issues is the ability to go supersonic over the US and Canada, sufficient range to meet mission objectives, and (the biggie!) noise issues. With Stage III a big deal now (and I just started reading about Stage IV), that's a big consideration.

I have no doubt that it is a workable concept given enough R&D. However, there has to be sufficient demand to justify the R&D cost, and I'm not sure if that exists ... yet.

Until then, .88 - .92 will have to be fast enough, I guess.

Fly safe, y'all!

R
 

2000flyer

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I think, amoung the great points "flywithruss" brings up, is no doubt the cost of a program such as this. While I've never seen an estimated price tag on an SSBJ, I would hazard a guess close to the $100M range. I'm sure manufacturers are looking at an investment well into the billions on a project such as this. Imagine the number of aircraft they'll have to sell just to break even!

Now look at the operating costs. There aren't too many corporations out there that could justify them. I've always thought this would be an ideal fractional aircraft, but again, they'd have to be selling 1/10th or smaller shares just so people can afford a piece of the pie. Imagine having to sell all those shares if it were $100M aircraft! Now, honestly, would you even be able to get your block hours they promised when sharing a plane with thousands of co-owners?

Someday I'm sure the SSBJ will come to life and I'm sure someone will plunk down the change to own a piece of history. However, it is my belief that this will be a venture only tempted by international airlines offering ultra long range flights (aka NYC-Sydney).

Just my $0.02

Regards,

2000Flyer
 

GVFlyer

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crash-proof said:
Hi there...

I just wanted to hear your opinions on a supersonic bizjet. I hear Gulfstream is laying down the prints for one...


Gulfstream, under Alan Paulson, had an agreement with Sukhoi Design Bureau to develop a SSBJ. When Paulson went away so did that agreement. Gulfstream next gained Lockheed Skunk Works as a risk sharing partner in SSBJ development. This was a good thing as Lockheed and Boeing are the only two US companies that have sonic boom suppression technology (more on this later). Lockheeds conception of what a low boom SSBJ will look like can be found on the IBM Intellectual Properties web site with their patent. This deal went away when Lochkeed began to do poorly in business and withdrew to their core competencies for economic recovery.

Gulfstream is now going it alone albeit with a DARPA grant for sonic boom suppression technology. What this is all about is the overpressurization that occurs with a supersonic shock wave. Overpressurization is the same thing that causes nuclear bombs to knock things down. In the US there is no standard for overpressurisation associated with a shockwave. The rule is simply don't go supersonic over CONUS.

Manufacturers would like to see a rule that allows supersonic flight over ground with a reduced boom or overpressurization standard established. Either way, Gulfstream is proceeding. Engines might be either a derivative of the Rolls-Royce Trent, GE Variable Cycle Engine or the PW F-22 engine. Essential to the design of the Gulfstream SSBJ is that it be G-II diameter, 140 feet long, that it have the same range supersonic and sub-sonic and that that range be 4,000 nm. Because of the nature of supersonic wings, all fuel would be in the fuselage. Because of the high drag region from .90 mach to 1.2 mach, design speed would be in the mach 1.6 to 2.0 range. Gulfstream estimates cost at about $70 million.

I'd like to fly it...














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crash-proof

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Really great info, thanks. I was doing a little researching myself in the meanwhile and it seems like they're testin an F-5 with a special nose that will create a "quiet boom", in order to comply with noise restrictions. I guess that's the first solid step in any direction. I'm sure that Boeing's progress with SSC will determine what happens to Gulfstream. Even Beoing's gettin dizzy, not sure whether what range their goal is, nor speed, etc and their program got pushed back a bit. Good for airbus i guess...

$70 million for a suprsonic corp. jet? I guess with the global express and BBJs pushin $50 milllion, I'm sure somebody will dish out another $20M for the supersonic. Question is, how many will want to...
 

GVFlyer

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crash-proof said:
$70 million for a suprsonic corp. jet? I guess with the global express and BBJs pushin $50 milllion, I'm sure somebody will dish out another $20M for the supersonic. Question is, how many will want to...


Richard Santulli has assigned a project officer to the SSBJ and has announced that he will buy a "large fleet" of them should anyone make them...

Gulfstream plans to bend metal on the first one in 2006.

 

GVFlyer

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crash-proof said:
I was doing a little researching myself in the meanwhile and it seems like they're testin an F-5 with a special nose that will create a "quiet boom"...


That would be Northrop Grumman - they got a large grant from DARPA for Quiet Supersonic Platform research as well ...

 
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