Students doing a before landing checklist

[Kream926]

"oh (expletive of your choice), I should turn on the transponder"
-mini

haaaaaaa

countless times im guilty of that and even been inquired by atc about it
my usual rell response, "will recycle it for ya". But im sure thats everyone elses excuse

 

[bigD]

I'm gonna go against the grain on this one, but are we talking about a written checklist, or what?

I have my students do a pre-landing checklist, of course, but it's based on a pneumonic such as GUMPS, etc...nothing from a written checklist. With the friggin crazy uncontrolled strips around here, the last thing I need is my student having his/her head buried in a written checklist when they should be looking for other traffic.

 

[Goose Egg]

I'm not really huge on GUMPS, or any othe acronym for that matter. I like to see the student go through the pre-landing checklist itself on downwind. Then at least once more, I like to hear them double check the gear on base and/or final by saying "three in the green"--I think running the entire pre-landing checklist more than once is a waste of time and unneccessary workload.

-Goose

 

[midlifeflyer]

Silly question: What do you mean by "do a before landing checklist?'

Are you talking about pulling out the checklist on downwind, putting your head down and reading while in the pattern with 4 other airplanes? No I don't.

Or, are you talking about, having briefed the before landing checklist earlier in the process, using a flow, tactile or other reliable confirmation check? Yes. Absolutely.

 

[Xavier]

Exactly like midlife said, I don't get out the checklist for it, but I just remember GUMPS, which I do for the before-landing CL.


My instructor doesn't make me do the before landing checklist. He makes me GUMPS check though (Fuel Selector Valve on, Undercarriage down, Mixture Rich, Power Appropriate, Seat Belts and Shoulder Harnesses Fastened, Landing Light On), which is pretty much Before-Landing CL

 

[dmspilot00]

What exactly is there to check when you're flying a simple aircraft doing strictly pattern work?

I learned to fly in a 152, and for closed-traffic I didn't do a before landing checklist. Gas? That was checked before takeoff, and in my experience valves don't move by themselves. Undercarriage? It's fixed gear. Mixture? Again, it's already on rich, why would it have changed? Prop? It's fixed pitch.

Edit: Ralgha assertively sums up what I meant by this post...

 

[Ralgha]

Whipping out a printed checklist in the traffic pattern and running through it? Hell no, that's a good way to become a midair statistic.

Memory flows such as GUMPS (or GLUMPS), yeah I do that, but not in a simple thing like a friggen 152. Getting them in the habbit of saying "down and welded" for the undercarriage might lead to bad things in a retract. Have them run a check, but tailor it to the airplane. Checking gear down in a 152 is dumb, all that really needs to be checked is fuel valve on (though it shouldn't have moved on it's own, but maybe the lady's purse hooked it), mixture full rich, flaps as appropriate. Seatbelts should be checked prior to the pattern when you can whip out the printed checklist and run it.

All airplanes are not created equal, don't try to make checklists that are.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Getting them in the habbit of saying "down and welded" for the undercarriage might lead to bad things in a retract.

I agree with you completely and always wondered how many gear-up accidents have been caused by pilots who were taught gumps in fixed gear airplanes and learning that if you forget to check it nothing happens.

My own preference is to use the opportunity to start teaching aircraft flow patterns.

 

[hoop]

"mixture rich, pump on, gauges green, seat belts fastened, fullest tank" everytime, on the 45 entry, or on downwind. Ol' Tom has hammered that one into me from day one.

 

[wheelsup]

Do you make your students do a before landing checklist if they are staying in the pattern? Say you do 10 touch and go's with them. Do you require a before landing checklist each time on downwind?

No paper checklists, but flows (no not GUMPS!).

IMO, reading a checklist (aloud or silently) in the pattern could be disasterous (single pilot). Head down etc. etc....

I agree with you midlife, I hate GUMPS and there were instructors that taught it at my old school in the 172's. "Helps for transition to a retrac" they would say. IMO, that's BS, learn to fly the aircraft you're flying. They had their students do 3 GUMPS checks in the 172 in the pattern, which certainly ingrained the (down and welded) in their mind...I've survived 500 hours of dual in retracs without ever once hearing GUMPS...(but do use flows).

~wheelsup

 

[Flechas]

If I'm flying a 172 I used to teach a flow to make sure everything is where it's suposed to be, the more time outside the better, the landing checklist I only used it when I was not flyingin the pattern, I would tell the students to do it at least 5 miles out. Now If i was teaching in the multi I used the 3 Gs(abeam the numbers in the pattern, FAF in an IAP), Gear down, Go down, GUMP check, and then 3 green lights over the fence.

 

[midlifeflyer]

there were instructors that taught it at my old school in the 172's. "Helps for transition to a retract" they would say. IMO, that's BS,

Wanna see something =really= scary:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/printproduct.cfm?Product_ID=4473

Great device: teach your students than when the gear handle goes down =nothing= happens. No sounds of gear movement, no increase in drag, no change of airspeed, nothing. And when the same thing happens I a retract, nothing to worry about.

 

[dmspilot00]

Wanna see something =really= scary:

$59!! For that price, are you sure a real retractable landing gear is not included? Geesh. By the way, I think some flight school associated with a university has those in their planes, but forget who it was.

 

[jumppilot]

I might mention something which hasn't been mentioned...

In my CFI days, I would teach my students to use the checklist, but after they soloed, I would introduce flying without the checklist.

I agree that checklists are VERY IMPORTANT, as they pretty much make you idiot proof. However, when someone knows they can take off and land using nothing but flows, and their brain, that instills confidence in their abilities. If someone uses the checklist as a crutch, which I saw a lot of during my CFI days, they don't really learn how to think outside the box.

Think about it, if your engine blows up on downwind, you're not going to have time to run checklists. At that point, it is your ability, and experience, which makes or breaks the situation....ie: FLOWS!

Checklists are important and I use them religiously. But I credit my 1200 hours dual given, where you're sitting in the right seat (looking out the window more or less) as what made me the pilot I am today.

 

[Chiller]

Do you make your students do a before landing checklist if they are staying in the pattern? Say you do 10 touch and go's with them. Do you require a before landing checklist each time on downwind?

You betcha!!! And it isn't just a verbal regurgitation. They physically refer to it and do it item by item. So, that means a checklist should be convenient to use.