Students doing a before landing checklist

[dmspilot00]

What exactly is there to check when you're flying a simple aircraft doing strictly pattern work?

I learned to fly in a 152, and for closed-traffic I didn't do a before landing checklist. Gas? That was checked before takeoff, and in my experience valves don't move by themselves. Undercarriage? It's fixed gear. Mixture? Again, it's already on rich, why would it have changed? Prop? It's fixed pitch.

Edit: Ralgha assertively sums up what I meant by this post...

 

[Ralgha]

Whipping out a printed checklist in the traffic pattern and running through it? Hell no, that's a good way to become a midair statistic.

Memory flows such as GUMPS (or GLUMPS), yeah I do that, but not in a simple thing like a friggen 152. Getting them in the habbit of saying "down and welded" for the undercarriage might lead to bad things in a retract. Have them run a check, but tailor it to the airplane. Checking gear down in a 152 is dumb, all that really needs to be checked is fuel valve on (though it shouldn't have moved on it's own, but maybe the lady's purse hooked it), mixture full rich, flaps as appropriate. Seatbelts should be checked prior to the pattern when you can whip out the printed checklist and run it.

All airplanes are not created equal, don't try to make checklists that are.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Getting them in the habbit of saying "down and welded" for the undercarriage might lead to bad things in a retract.

I agree with you completely and always wondered how many gear-up accidents have been caused by pilots who were taught gumps in fixed gear airplanes and learning that if you forget to check it nothing happens.

My own preference is to use the opportunity to start teaching aircraft flow patterns.

 

[hoop]

"mixture rich, pump on, gauges green, seat belts fastened, fullest tank" everytime, on the 45 entry, or on downwind. Ol' Tom has hammered that one into me from day one.

 

[wheelsup]

Do you make your students do a before landing checklist if they are staying in the pattern? Say you do 10 touch and go's with them. Do you require a before landing checklist each time on downwind?

No paper checklists, but flows (no not GUMPS!).

IMO, reading a checklist (aloud or silently) in the pattern could be disasterous (single pilot). Head down etc. etc....

I agree with you midlife, I hate GUMPS and there were instructors that taught it at my old school in the 172's. "Helps for transition to a retrac" they would say. IMO, that's BS, learn to fly the aircraft you're flying. They had their students do 3 GUMPS checks in the 172 in the pattern, which certainly ingrained the (down and welded) in their mind...I've survived 500 hours of dual in retracs without ever once hearing GUMPS...(but do use flows).

~wheelsup

 

[Flechas]

If I'm flying a 172 I used to teach a flow to make sure everything is where it's suposed to be, the more time outside the better, the landing checklist I only used it when I was not flyingin the pattern, I would tell the students to do it at least 5 miles out. Now If i was teaching in the multi I used the 3 Gs(abeam the numbers in the pattern, FAF in an IAP), Gear down, Go down, GUMP check, and then 3 green lights over the fence.

 

[midlifeflyer]

there were instructors that taught it at my old school in the 172's. "Helps for transition to a retract" they would say. IMO, that's BS,

Wanna see something =really= scary:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/printproduct.cfm?Product_ID=4473

Great device: teach your students than when the gear handle goes down =nothing= happens. No sounds of gear movement, no increase in drag, no change of airspeed, nothing. And when the same thing happens I a retract, nothing to worry about.

 

[dmspilot00]

Wanna see something =really= scary:

$59!! For that price, are you sure a real retractable landing gear is not included? Geesh. By the way, I think some flight school associated with a university has those in their planes, but forget who it was.

 

[jumppilot]

I might mention something which hasn't been mentioned...

In my CFI days, I would teach my students to use the checklist, but after they soloed, I would introduce flying without the checklist.

I agree that checklists are VERY IMPORTANT, as they pretty much make you idiot proof. However, when someone knows they can take off and land using nothing but flows, and their brain, that instills confidence in their abilities. If someone uses the checklist as a crutch, which I saw a lot of during my CFI days, they don't really learn how to think outside the box.

Think about it, if your engine blows up on downwind, you're not going to have time to run checklists. At that point, it is your ability, and experience, which makes or breaks the situation....ie: FLOWS!

Checklists are important and I use them religiously. But I credit my 1200 hours dual given, where you're sitting in the right seat (looking out the window more or less) as what made me the pilot I am today.

 

[Chiller]

Do you make your students do a before landing checklist if they are staying in the pattern? Say you do 10 touch and go's with them. Do you require a before landing checklist each time on downwind?

You betcha!!! And it isn't just a verbal regurgitation. They physically refer to it and do it item by item. So, that means a checklist should be convenient to use.

 

[FlyingBuckI]

I teach checklists religiously, but not when we're in the pattern for an hour. During a XC checklists become a must, especially on an IFR flight. In the pattern, though, I use teach the use of flows (ie. GUMPS or similar on downwind, double check at 300agl)

They physically refer to it and do it item by item.

This is another thing I'm fanatical about...I make my students touch every item as it's read verbally, and check it visually. If you get into the habit of just spitting items off, chances are you're missing something.

 

[Flyin Tony]

makes good habit when they get into retractable gear planes later on

Im going to have my CFI on the 20th I hope. And the gear horn dosent work in my plane I was thinking flying around in 150s all day is going to make me screw up one day and not put the gear down on my plane. I went to radio shack and got a little horn that is sooo loud I can still hear it it comes with a dumb STC of course

 

[avbug]

Dumb STC?

I agree that checklists are VERY IMPORTANT, as they pretty much make you idiot proof.

They do not. The only way to accomplish that is to send the airplane aloft without a pilot.

Checklists are important and I use them religiously. But I credit my 1200 hours dual given, where you're sitting in the right seat (looking out the window more or less) as what made me the pilot I am today.

Don't say that too loud in an interview.

In my CFI days, I would teach my students to use the checklist, but after they soloed, I would introduce flying without the checklist.

The FAA knows this? Again, don't go saying that too loud. Bad idea.

 

[nosehair]

To all you folks who say you don't want your student's head down in the cockpit reading a checklist while in the pattern, and a simple memorized flow is good enough for the simple training airplane: You are the ones who are training us NOT to use a checklist.

Yeah, you don't want your student actually taking the time to look down at a list, find the place on the list, read & interpret the item, look up or over at the item, accomplish the item, bla,bla,bla.

You want your student to be able, from memory, to accomplish the checklist, then bring the checklist into his organized scan. A quick look to confirm that the items have been accomplished.

It's all about the training, Man. All of us can be trained to include the checklist into our outside scan. Look down for a second. If you can't find the item in one second, then you need to "dry-fly" until you can look down at your checklist which is on a knee-board strapped to your leg, and look straight at the checklist item, just like you take a quick glance at your airspeed or altitude. Look back up outside, keep flying, look inside at the checklist item, confirm it is completed, and continue in this fashion.

Of course, it takes practice. Practice, practice, practice. Just like it takes practice to scan the instrument panel without comprimising safety. The checklist is one more item to include into the scan.

If we learn to do this from the start, it becomes a natural habit. It does not require having your head down in the cockpit.

It becomes a bothersome task when we are trained NOT to use a checklist in our primary days of going around the pattern 10 or 12 times WITHOUT using a checklist.

Never mind that you can safely memorize and execute a pre-landing checlist on a 152 - the act of including it in your scan is what you are training.

Remeber that you are always training. If you are not using a physical checklist, then YOU are teaching your student to NOT use a checklist.