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Student Pilot having a fatal crash?

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MVSW

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2005
Posts
220
One of my best friends who fly's corporate, was in Waukesha WI (UES) yesterday. He said that he heard the folks in the fbo talking about a student pilot that was on his 3rd SOLO flight, had a fatal crash. Just wanted to know if anyone knows anything about this? This is very sad to the family and the CFI. I wonder if the CFI will get sued or lose in ratings.
 
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I've always wondered about the potential liability of the CFI. Just because a student is involved in an accident, doesn't by any means indicate that he received sub-standard training. It would only be logical to point to the CFI, but there are other factors. Can you really place blame if a student crashes?
 
I guess you could go back through training files and the like and see if there was a consistent problem that may have possibly led to the crash. Although this would be based on speculation only.

In theory the CFI could be held responsible if the conditions were far outside the realm of any reasonable student pilot. Additionally, if there was a company or insurance restriction someone could be held responsible.
 
UnAnswerd said:
I've always wondered about the potential liability of the CFI. Just because a student is involved in an accident, doesn't by any means indicate that he received sub-standard training. It would only be logical to point to the CFI, but there are other factors. Can you really place blame if a student crashes?
Greg Gorak has a great log book for CFI's to use when teaching students. For me to describe it, would be foolish, but suffice to say that it is basically a CFI checklist for training, with a white copy and a yellow copy. The student signs each page with the instructor and is given the yellow copy for his records, the CFI keeps the white copy for his records.

http://www.pilotstore.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1058

Greg Gorak also hosts Gaits Aviation Seminars for CFI refresher clinics...He is the "proverbial" Mac Daddy, of CFI's.
 
The Fellow who taught my last firc used to do basically the same thing but using a PTS. He would initial and have the student initial after everything he taught and then kept the PTS.
 
Keep Good Records

I had a student (and very good friend) who died in a crash. I got him his private, instrument and multi-comm. He had about 500TT. Against my advice, he bought a C421. I refused to fly it with him until he went to SimCom or FSI. Instead, he found a "highly experienced" 421 instructor and spent 100hrs flying CAVU x/country's to meet the insurance mins. He once told me the plane was so comfortable "the instructor sleeps in back".:rolleyes: Without going into detail, the crash was a direct result of poor aircraft-specific training.

After the accident, there was a brief period when the sleepy instructor tried to direct the Feds toward me. That idea fizzled when I was able to produce thorough, very detailed records of every lesson we ever flew and signed by my student.
 
FN FAL said:
Greg Gorak has a great log book for CFI's to use when teaching students. For me to describe it, would be foolish, but suffice to say that it is basically a CFI checklist for training, with a white copy and a yellow copy. The student signs each page with the instructor and is given the yellow copy for his records, the CFI keeps the white copy for his records.

http://www.pilotstore.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1058

Greg Gorak also hosts Gaits Aviation Seminars for CFI refresher clinics...He is the "proverbial" Mac Daddy, of CFI's.

Good stuff. I have more than I want to admit, time as a CFI. Let's just say it is over 6000 hours. I think I may have set a record one day as I soled seven students. ( If anyone else as soled more in one day, I would like to hear) But that is another story. Time progressed and I became squirilley with the liability crap, did the corporate stuff and now only do the instrument comp and bfr stuff.

www.bdkingpress.com
 
HMR said:
He once told me the plane was so comfortable "the instructor sleeps in back".:rolleyes: Without going into detail, the crash was a direct result of poor aircraft-specific training.

After the accident, there was a brief period when the sleepy instructor tried to direct the Feds toward me. That idea fizzled when I was able to produce thorough, very detailed records of every lesson we ever flew and signed by my student.

I hope the guy that slept while giving instruction to circumnavigate insurance regs, got fragged. Sleeps and tries to pin it on someone else. Dirt.
 
FN FAL said:
Greg Gorak has a great log book for CFI's to use when teaching students. For me to describe it, would be foolish, but suffice to say that it is basically a CFI checklist for training, with a white copy and a yellow copy.
I use something similar. Mine is kneeboard-sized so that I can check things off and make notes in flight.

On the assigning blame point, I know of only two cases involving CFI liability for a soloing student.

One is a court case from 1958. A flight school was successfully sued when a student pilot took off with the control lock on. Bad case in that it goes off on a strict liability for student errors theory. Good news is that I don't think any other case has followed up on it.

The second is this NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X28042&key=1
 

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