Street Captains at Pinnacle

[Lear70]

About two months ago a few of us on here projected out our upgrades and said we would just barely scrape by without having to hire off the street... we were wrong. Much to our surprise, fewer people have standing bids on file than was earlier thought we would have.

As a result, the company is unable to fill training slots this month for Captain upgrades, has requested anyone on future vacancy awards who wants to upgrade now submit bids.

More interestingly, the latest vacancy award for a December 1st effective date (when you would be supposedly flying a line) included 5 street captain positions. The next vacancy for a January effective date hasn't come out yet but probably will soon, and since that training would be over Thanksgiving and Christmas, I wouldn't expect the senior F/O's to go for it so we may have TWO classes of street captains.

The Chief Pilot said they have not yet interviewed for these positions but would soon. Minimums are 3500 Total, 2500 Multiengine, 1000 turbine. Previous Part 121 or 135 jet command (especially EFIS and FMS experience) would be an asset.

If you know someone here or especially someone in HR, now is the time. Best of luck, but be forewarned: with contract negotiations stalled and not restarting until May of next year, no new deliveries planned after March or April, probably no new deliveries until our contract is done which will probably be 3 years or so given how contentious "early negotiations" started and ended, you will be on reserve for 4 or 5 years, 10 days off per month, and on the receiving end of Crew Schedulers who have maybe a few month's experience in aviation - it's not fun, I just finished 3 years of reserve. If you don't have another gig or won't upgrade in the next 3-5 years where you're at, might be worth it...

 

[Flying Colors]

Yep,
Everyone that I told, a new hire would be able upgrade in less than 2 years thought I was full of crap and 2 months later now look whats going on.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I'm lost here... Do the senior FO's not have enough time to upgrade, and that's why they'd hire street cap's?

 

[flap operator]

Hey look! the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Enter big red and the whipsaw boys! For those at PCL that never believed it would happen... wake up! here it comes.

Good luck PCL...


FO

 

[blade230]

"I'm lost here... Do the senior FO's not have enough time to upgrade, and that's why they'd hire street cap's?"

There are Senior AND Junior FO's here that have easily 3000 + hours. The reason many (and I can't speak for everyone here) are not upgrading yet is they are commuters, and with no commuter clause, they are waiting to hold a line. And in the case of the MSP based guys, they have no interest in taking a Capt vacancy in DTW. They will wait for MSP.

My guess would be 5-7 years MINIMUM for a street captain who starts in December to hold a line here at 9E. For several reasons. 1. As the next 1.5 year(s) passes, there are going to be MANY people willing to (and able) to upgrade. About 300-350 to be percise. 2. No more growth. 3. Contract negotiations. Those that start in December will be in the 1050-1200 seniority # range.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Egads!

Well I'd heard of this possible scenario already, many months ago in fact. To make a long story short, I had a former Pinnacle guy, now a NWA pilot, tell me that I should throw my stuff in because it was inevitable that they'd be hiring street captains. I scoffed at the very concept that they couldn't find any ready, willing and able FO's to take any of the Captain slots, but he insisted that it was a few months away.

Aside from the time frame, it appears that he was right. I still find it amazing that people would put aside the opportunity to upgrade at their own company... Unless your FO pay is waaay higher than I think it is! I'd think you'd jump at the first opportunity to get the seat and deal with the lifestyle change for the six months or a year (or whatever) it would take to get to your desired base.

In any case, I took a street captain position at my company that kept me on reserve for approx 15 mos in total, and I can't even imagine what it would be like to be on reserve for five years. Good luck to anyone who is willing to take the plunge!

 

[corpflunkie]

So, what's the pay like for a street captain??

 

[Paul R. Smith]

So, what's the pay like for a street captain??

like all "regional" airlines....slightly above street beggar.

Honestly I could not tell ya. 50 somin an hour for a first yr capt, but I don't work at PCL so I could not tell ya.

 

[justmeinmsp]

$55.07 1st yr CA., 10 days off. Reserve here is used like a form of punishment.

 

[FHTEAGLE]

So, what's the pay like for a street captain??

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/pinnacle/pinnacle.htm

 

[surplus1]

Doesn't your Company have the ability to junior assign?

 

[Lear70]

Easy with the gloating there Colors... when even the Chief Pilot is surprised by this, you know something's really off. The ONLY reason there are street captains on this vacancy is because the company realized that DTW was going to have about 20 Captains time out in late Nov / early Dec and increased the SECONDARY vacancies by 13 Captains (that's more than the Primary Vacancies). Other than that, we wouldn't have been into street captains at all.

And yes, they can both Junior Assign on off days (up to 3 days in advance and since all you get on reserve is 3 day off blocks you can't get off the hook if you want), and they can also Extend people on their last day into another push or another whole day off. Basically we have Captains being assigned and given 8 or even 7 days off and never getting them back. Reserve sucks.

 

[dondk]

Did not see street Captain's coming either.. But with some 14 or so alternates.. I would not count on Street Captains (yet). By the time they (management) fills the late Oct class date there will be 1 maybe 2 vacancies? Even if this is typical "knee jerk" reaction to a bunch of pilot's timing out for the year.. Take a look at the Captain reserves in MSP and MEM.. Still fairly well staffed and unless those bases suddenly jump by some 20+ lines, they will still be staffed fairly well for the next few months.

I would not be surprised if this was/is a good scare tatic to get some guys off thier arse's and finally put a bid in.

A few other comment's to note...

I don't personally see why MSP guys would wait it out... Would they rather give up thier chance to dudes off the street? Once the street Captains are filled they cannot upgrade unless someone leaves the company..

With the sport bidding that is going on, and generally around the begining of the year it gets worse, anyone junior bidding for a base as a Captain is rolling the dice anyway. Even if it takes a month or two to get back to your domicile, your on 24/7 per diem and a free hotel.. Can't see why dudes would pass that up just to stay in base?

As for senior guys holding out for the holiday's.. I'd buy that.. I almost considered the same thing. Although getting that sweet vacation bid would require me holding out to a Feb or March Vacancy.. Personally I doubt the music will still be playing then for upgrade.

 

[Lear70]

The 04-07 Final Vacancy Award had zero Alternates listed...

I hope the music doesn't stop until February... I have to get back to DTW one more time.

Otherwise,,, might be right about the scare tactics, although I don't see people folding. Scare tactics haven't worked here before, why should they now?

 

[DoinTime]

And yes, they can both Junior Assign on off days (up to 3 days in advance and since all you get on reserve is 3 day off blocks you can't get off the hook if you want), and they can also Extend people on their last day into another push or another whole day off. Basically we have Captains being assigned and given 8 or even 7 days off and never getting them back. Reserve sucks.

I believe surplus was referring to junior assignment into a vacancy, and yes they have that ability. Historically they have been reluctant to do this as the difference between a two month FO and a new hire are slim. Add to that the fact that a street captain only requires one training cycle to be qualified (instead of FO and captain training events), street captains are not paid during training as the FO upgrade would be, and a street captain could be let go without recourse if their training wasn't going well.

Somebody above nailed it with captains timing out this winter. We have a huge number of vacancies for December but only a couple of deliveries. Crews have been run so hard this year that many will be timing out and the company is just realizing what they need to do to keep the planes in the air. I doubt there will be many, if any, January vacancies as the timed out captains will be returning. Should be interesting to watch the company step on their dicks, again.

 

[DoinTime]

As for senior guys holding out for the holiday's.. I'd buy that.. I almost considered the same thing. Although getting that sweet vacation bid would require me holding out to a Feb or March Vacancy.. Personally I doubt the music will still be playing then for upgrade.

Being in the training department is the way to go to get the holidays off. Per the contract you can't be held out of domicile for training from December 24th thru January 1st. Everyone in class in December just got xmas eve, xmas day, new years eve, new years day, and all the days in between off. It takes a lot of senority to pull that off without a week of vacation on your side.

As long as you don't start training until after November 20th (vacation bid close) you still get to bid in your old status and domicile position.

A December class date is the cat's ass if you ask me.

 

[dondk]

side.

As long as you don't start training until after November 20th (vacation bid close) you still get to bid in your old status and domicile position.

You know I asked that question.. I have the seniority to pick and choose my class date.. The "higher ups" put it to me that I would have to NOT been awarded a CA position BEFORE Nov 20 (hence a Feb or Mar Vacancy). Otherwise I would have to bid as the status when I was awarded it (assuming one completes training). I agree getting into training for Dec is the way to go.. They left how many guys out 2 years ago? I thought the final tally was about 125-150 guys with most of December off.

 

[dondk]

street captains are not paid during training as the FO upgrade would be, and a street captain could be let go without recourse if their training wasn't going well.

I thought back in '01.. street captains did recieve some form of compensation. Back then the Street Captains went 12-14 weeks (or better) to the check ride.

I know the mechanics back then had a sweet deal, it was the new hire FO's who were screwed.

 

[Lear70]

Street Captains were given what they could negotiate. Some of them didn't get anything, some of them got per diem, some of them got per diem and hotel, none of them got a paycheck.

Of course, that was a different environment. They really needed the street captains and there weren't a lot of qualified people on the street like there are now; this time around they probably won't get d*ck...

 

[DoinTime]

The "higher ups" put it to me that I would have to NOT been awarded a CA position BEFORE Nov 20 (hence a Feb or Mar Vacancy).

Read your contract. "Higher up" is a relative term and it don't mean much.