Straight in approach at Non Controlled Field

[O-Line]

Straight ins are completely legal. You simply can't make an opposite direction turn (i.e. a right base at a runway with left traffic). Also remember 91.113g right of way rules, lower traffic has right of way, traffic on final has right of way over everyone.


http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/4236.PDF

 

[philo beddoe]

I talked to a fed from ak about this incident. It involved a questionable wiiide right base, if you get what I mean. Both my airlines did straight ins all the time to uncontrolled fields. With faa on board. Much safer than ridiculous amounts of maneuvering ata TPA 500' abv all the piston traffic. Speed adjustments and courteous radio work always made it work out fine.

 

[IP076]

Look in your AIM for one.
What is the practical difference?
do you have an istrument license?
Then you should know that an ILS clearance vs a visual clearance allows for different seperation.
Since you go into these BIG busy airports you would know that on a day were everyone has to shoot the ILS, everyone is getting slowed down and the final is much longer. CALLED REQUIRED SEPERATION
The 5 mile rule applies to uncontrolled airports not somewhere where the tower creates the final..duh
4000 hrs, think you would know the basics

Almost a million hours...and not much difference....

For one, its called an "Instrument Rating". A license is something you get to drive a truck, a "Certificate" or "Rating" allows you to operate an aircraft.

Another point, there is no such thing as a "Controlled" or "uncontrolled" airport, they are classifications of airspace. Airport's are either "Towered" or "Non-Towered". You can have a "Towered" airport that is surrounded by "Un-Controlled" airspace.

There is no practical difference in flying an ILS on an IFR clearance to a non-towered airport in VMC and flying a straight in approach.. ATC is responsible for seperating the IFR traffic. You are still responsible for separation from the VFR traffic in the pattern. Once on CTAF, you will need to co-ordinate with the other traffic in the area for your arrival.

 

[prpjt]

A license is something you get to drive a truck, a "Certificate" or "Rating" allows you to operate an aircraft.

It would appear that the FAA disagrees with you on that particular point.

From the FAA website:

How do I obtain commercial pilot license?

How do I find out if someone is an FAA-licensed pilot or mechanic?


How do I get the new plastic credit card style license (certificate) to replace my paper license?


If I change the address on my pilot's license, do I need a new license?


What are the differences in the types of pilot licenses?


What requirements must I meet to get a mechanic's license?

 

[belchfire]

One of the uncontrolled airports my outfit
serves has an analretentive "safety officer"
of some sort that periodically threatens
to call the FAA about out "straight in"
approaches. Don't know what his issue is,
seem like the slow manueverable aircraft all
have the right of way over our instrument
operations...I never cancel till I'm on the
ground...

I have (for some time now) been either flying
a full pattern or joining the loc outside the
marker and using appropriate calls to indicate
which runway I am "circling" to in not going to
the runway aligned with the LOC. The LOC is
served by arcs for both right and left turns...
looks to me like if you are established on the
localizer outside the marker they shouldn't be
able to touch you.

Another choice would be to ask for a heading
to join the LOC (or whatever serves as the final
approach course). If Center/approach gives you
instructions or a clearance to do so, and it doesn't
violate any other regs, you're covered.

 

[wheelsup]

So to conclude:

-You can turn a long final however far you are away from the airport to land
-If turning on final via opposite direction of turn prescribed by part 93 traffic pattern, you must turn this final outside of 5 NM.


What I find hilarious is that the FAA's recommended traffic pattern entry calls for an INITAL right turn onto downwind to begin left turns. This seems hypocritical!?!

My questions:

On depature from class G airports, you can turn any direction after depature that you want (91.126 does NOT mention depatures like 91.127 for class E does).

So, if departing a class G you can make a right turn out assuming the traffic pattern is established left traffic. In class E you cannot, per 91.127 (b). However, what if you are at an airport that has class E starting @ 700', would you abide by 91.126 for depatures or 91.127. Also, what is the definition of "vicinity" as in "operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class E airspace"? I'm guessing the 91.127 rules would apply for the above situation as the class G airport (up to 700') is in the vicinity of class E airspace, therefore you must make all turns on departure in the direction of the prescribed traffic pattern.

-How about practice approaches? We do them VFR without approach guidance here at my school (Denver center hardly has RADAR coverage) and often make procedure turns within 5 NM. If we make a right hand procedure turn within 5 NM at a class E airport with a runway that has right traffic, technically are we violating 91.126/91.127? I'm asking FAR standpoint only, not AIM.

-What about visual approaches? They are still an IFR manuver, but do they fall under 91.126/91.127? If cleared for visual approach, must you enter the pattern with left turns @ a class G or E airport, or turn final outside of 5 NM? I'm assuming yes (as the 737 situation showed), but just wanted clarification

-What if you shot an approach and circled to land? Aim 5-4-18 f 2 states that you must consider standard left traffic. I had thought that you could circle any way you'd like.

Am I making this too hard?

Sorry for all the questions, I should probably know all this but it seems there are so many variables.

 

[IP076]

Prpjet....

Thanks for pointing out the references on the FAA site...

I guess this is a "grey" area....or is it a "gray" area..

I was just going by 61, where it lists the requirements for certificates and ratings.

 

[prpjt]

I think the use of the word licence is fairly recent on their web site.

 

[Birdstrike]

You guys are right on many things, but the basis of it being illegal and why the captain might of given you a look as to why it would be illegal is that your maximum for a straight in is a 5 mile final..

I thought Mar and ASquared might have posted DOC's response to their query on this issue on the Pro Pilot BB but I'll do it for them:

http://www.propilot.com/ then select DOCs FAR Forum Bulletin Board and you'll see the question on VFR Uncontrolled Straight-Ins including discussion of the so-called "Five Mile Rule".

Here's the gist:

"Yes, you can make a straight-in approach and landing. FAR 91.126(b) applies to the direction of turns, but it does not require you to actually make turns in order to enter the pattern. It merely imposes a standard direction-of-turn for any turns that happen to occur.

Radio contact is not required in Class G airspace (but it is still a good idea), so the fact that you make periodic pattern reports is irrelevant.

The AIM pattern entry recommendations are just that -- recommendations. But failing to follow AIM guidance COULD lead to enforcement action under FAR 91.13.
The length of the straight-in is irrelevant.
FAR 91.126(b):

"(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in a Class G airspace area -

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter must avoid the flow of fixed wing aircraft."

Hope this helps,
DOC
-------------------------------------------------

and ref the "five mile rule":

Posted by mar on December 08, 2004 at 16:47:27:

Doc, you said the length of the straight-in final is irrelevant but there was a 737 crew busted in Kotzebue, Alaska for turning a "short" dog-leg to final.

I don't have the text of the decision but I believe Asquared does.

The bottom line is that the FAA ruled the length of the final must be appropriate to the category and class of the aircraft.

In other words, a five mile straight-in is appropriate for a single engine cessna but a jet transport should be established on final much further out.

Sorry for the paraphrasing, hopefully Asquared will provide the exact text.
Best.
-------------------------
Mar:

I believe you and I have no doubt that the FAA may consider excessively short final approaches to be careless or reckless. But I was referring to the fact that Late Bloomer was probably being told by someone that some 'rule' exists (it doesn't) that straight-ins cannot exceed 5 miles (maximum length).

It's the same old thing again - there are people who just aren't satisfied with the existing volume of rule-making and feel the need to create more rules. It's already hard enough to keep up with FAA, TSA, and Congress....

Regards, Doc

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Do you have a reference for that? Airline? City? Anything?

I am sorry but I do not. I am referencing an article in Flying Magazine from several months ago.