Straight in approach at Non Controlled Field

[flyrunner80]

Was doing a trip last week (PART 91) and we flew into a non controlled field (class Golf not echo). When we were setting up for landing, I asked the captain, "If there isn't any traffic here do you want to do a straight in visual approach?" (because the rwy in use was 9 and our heading was 090, would have been convienent)

He gave me a look like "Are you nuts" and told me the FAA will write you up if you do that. He said it was illegal? All I know is that the AIM gives a recommendation in how to enter the pattern (45 downwind) and only left hand pattern unless told otherwise.

Was I wrong in suggestion that? Is it illegal?

Just want other imput.

 

[Swerpipe]

Straight in-visual at un-controlled not smart/safe

At un-controlled airports straight-in visual offset left or right and overfly the runway to examine its condition then turn downwind and do a normal pattern. Maybe there is someone on the runway with no comm, may be runway has debris, livestock, men working on the runway with no previous NOTAM (has happened to me),etc.. A few extra minutes could save you a lot of trouble. Exception: there are other aircraft in the pattern with whom you are communicating and you proceed straight in given that they have just used the runway and you can get that type of information from them.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

No, it is not illegal.

I do not have my regs in front of me, but look at something like 91.126 and 91.127 or 91.136 and 91.137, Operations in Class E and G airspace. The regs state that you must make all turns to the left, with the exception that if there is a visual indicator showing that all turns be made to the right, then you make all turns to the right.

You can legally enter the pattern at any point, including straight in, as long as the turns are made in the proper direction.

Now, what constitutes a straigh in approach apparently depends upon your class of aircraft. The FAA issued citations to the flight crew of a B737 for entering straight in at 5 miles and stated in their summary that 5 miles was not enough for a 73. The slight right turn they made to line up with the runway violated the afore mentioned reg.

 

[flyrunner80]

Thanks DAS you answered my question and mentioned the incident with the 737 I was looking for also.

 

[Singlecoil]

The FAA issued citations to the flight crew of a B737 for entering straight in at 5 miles and stated in their summary that 5 miles was not enough for a 73. The slight right turn they made to line up with the runway violated the afore mentioned reg.

Do you have a reference for that? Airline? City? Anything?

 

[SIR MILO]

You guys are right on many things, but the basis of it being illegal and why the captain might of given you a look as to why it would be illegal is that your maximum for a straight in is a 5 mile final..The 737 crew that I know that was violated a number of years ago now was when I lived in Alaska was a Alaska Airlines crew setup for a final beyond 5 miles and then got themselves by calling out there position beyond 5 miles started out with something like saying they were on a 8 mile final over the radio. A fed heard these calls on the ground and then violated them. 5 miles is your maximum straight in, 5 miles is your max final off a base leg. That's it..
Also watch what you say on the radio, doesn't matter what the freq is, that wasn't the only incident up there where someone got themselves in trouble that way up there..THere are alot more people listening in the lower 48, so watch out...

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Where the heck does this 5 mile rule come from? Doesn't ring the slightest bell for me.
A straight in approach is not an unreasonable idea. It is done all the time. I am not sure that it is really illegal but I do know there are some FAA inspectors who get their panties in a wad over it. Most could care less.

What is the practical difference between doing a straight in visual vs getting an ILS clearance in VMC? Thats right... none... no practical difference at all as far as posing a danger to local traffic.

My current policy varies. The types of airports that will always get a proper pattern entry are like East Hampton (busy) and Bar Harbor (local FAA is known to have panties in a bunch)

 

[SIR MILO]

Look in your AIM for one.
What is the practical difference?
do you have an istrument license?
Then you should know that an ILS clearance vs a visual clearance allows for different seperation.
Since you go into these BIG busy airports you would know that on a day were everyone has to shoot the ILS, everyone is getting slowed down and the final is much longer. CALLED REQUIRED SEPERATION
The 5 mile rule applies to uncontrolled airports not somewhere where the tower creates the final..duh
4000 hrs, think you would know the basics

 

[Checks]

I have never heard that "rule" either. How about a reference?

 

[capt_zman]

Sir milo, simmer down bro. I've been flying into an uncontrolled airport for 20 years and have never heard of a 5 mile rule either. Separation is provided by the local controllers until you either cancel in the air or on the ground. IFR aircraft waiting to takeoff or approach will not get a release/clearance until that cancellation happens. As for VFR traffic, you are responsible to avoid that traffic.

As for uncontrolled airports, it is exactly that, uncontrolled. You can do a 20 mile straight in final if you want, enter the pattern on an upwind, crosswind, downwind, base or whatever. The only thing that is questionable is your etiquette.