Stop blaming the Delta TA

[GogglesPisano]

I think the pay rates in '15 are supposed to be higher than FDX, fwiw. Assuming one gets hired in '13: $66 year one, year 2($97 on the MD88, $104 on 737) and year 3 ($117 on the MD88, $125 on the 737). Also, 15% company retirement contributions.

On 1/1 2015 Delta's pilots will be the highest-paid in the industry -- Barring any increases at SWA, FDX, or UPS (or out-of-the-park home-runs at any legacy carrier.)

 

[Always deferred]

BrickTop said it best.

 

[Always deferred]

I never thought I'd say this, but in light of the drastic reduction in student starts and the evaporating military pilot pool, you may see market forces obtain in the next 10 years what collective bargaining has failed to do over the past ten.

IOW, we may someday make what our mainline brethren do at the big European carriers -- and, like them, not have to drop a dollar of our own money in a Cessna to obtain it.

Just in time for airlines to push for quickening of single pilot airliners with new UAS concepts of operations coming out this fall.

 

[waveflyer]

This is the one thing that gives me hope- very few beginning an aviation career bc they know they'll be sold out by the DALPA's of the world-
So maybe, we'll have the payrates that'll help us all, and outsourcing will decrease due to lack of manning and a 1500TT requirement to FO any 121 flight.
But I still say selling out large RJ scope devalues the profession. Flying internationally all over the continent in a 85,000lb RJ at 410, tells everyone else that experience DOES NOT MATTER- throw a 15 year old in a sim with tight profile procedures and all will be well.
Nice message to send DALPA. :/

As for bricktop- I live everyday the advice that you espouse - but I do not for a second believe that anything is to blame BUT pilot collective weakness and short term greed.
I can blame DALPA. We all can blame DALPA. I have many friends at delta. I like them and love them a lot. But I can blame them.
They ARE RESPONSIBLE for their choices.

I never thought I'd say this, but in light of the drastic reduction in student starts and the evaporating military pilot pool, you may see market forces obtain in the next 10 years what collective bargaining has failed to do over the past ten.

IOW, we may someday make what our mainline brethren do at the big European carriers -- and, like them, not have to drop a dollar of our own money in a Cessna to obtain it.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

IOW, we may someday make what our mainline brethren do at the big European carriers -- and, like them, not have to drop a dollar of our own money in a Cessna to obtain it.

Hate to tell you but some of those have been hit as well... Look at Alitalia, KLM, etc. At one time they were looked at by Air France, not sure who owns either now but the european carriers are not safe havens! The middle eastern airlines are probably the only ones recession proof and working there is like stepping back 20+ years here where you are in a situation where the captain is always right, so much for CRM. (I'm sure someone will say otherwise but friends there tell me what's up. Cathay Pacific has a "B" scale that you can never get off of. Only those hired before are grandfathered into the higher pay (unless something's changed in the last 10 years.) For most Americans, those jobs you speak of are "unobtainable", unless you are a national of the sponsor country, and then it's only the "elite" who obtain that job. That's why you see the foreigners come here to train (cheaper since they're paying for it) and never leave because "Anyone" can get a job here!

Later,
KBB

 

[titans10]

Wave,

We can blame you for it to. As i stated to you before. It is getting old. You went to fly at a regional by choice. A lot of others did not. You did buy your type. A lot of others did not ever pay for training. I did neither. It was your choice. Move on.

 

[waveflyer]

Be tired of it.
For all the selling out im responsible for, I never VOTED to outsource one single airframe.

 

[Scoot 11]

Be tired of it.
For all the selling out im responsible for, I never VOTED to outsource one single airframe.

No, your hypocrisy led you to take that outsourced job. Then topped it all off by signing up for pay for training!

 

[BrickTop]

Another angry junior regional pilot. I hear ya. This career has been a total
bust for most of us.

Not the least bit angry. I started and own a business, develop products, collect on rentals and earn a great living. I still fly and enjoy it. I just stopped relying on it for a the income I need to bring my life what I sought. I've accepted my position and its likely future. Forming an alternative has provided far greater reward that logging onto a forum and verbally bashing my industry counterparts.

 

[IBNAV8R]

That is incorrect. You must not be familiar with the home construction industry. Wages for skilled labor rise and fall with aggregate demand. And I'm sure that if I sat down and thought about this for a while, there would be many other occupations that have seen wages rise commensurate with labor supply shortfalls.

Construction, nursing, teaching, fracking, mining, roughnecking, as will piloting, are affected by CURRENT shortages - not projected shortages. Thus, the initial statement is correct.

WHEN the shortage hits, something will happen. I would speculate that airlines will bemoan a "national crisis" and twist regulators' arms to minimize it's effect and keep wages low. There will be all kinds of exceptions and waivers to the 1,500TT rule and the airlines will push to delete ANY age requirement (gladly paying senior pilots max-capped wages so as not to increase pay for anyone else). We might well see a 250-hour MPLs before wages, benefits and prestige come back to this profession.

 

[waveflyer]

Scoot, you're so stupid you're irrelevant- back on my version of the ignore list
(you know, where I don't put you on an ignore list- I just ignore you)

 

[waveflyer]

Well bricktop, it's not an either/or thing for me. My business gives me a challenge, and satisfaction flying usually doesn't anymore- and income that I won't make as a pilot-
But I reserve the right to call a spade a spade here on FI.

 

[Lyconit]

asses your position.

I think this has already been going on for a long time...

 

[titans10]

Be tired of it.
For all the selling out im responsible for, I never VOTED to outsource one single airframe.

I NEVER voted for it, never flown them and never PFT. Never will.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Not the least bit angry. I started and own a business, develop products, collect on rentals and earn a great living. I still fly and enjoy it. I just stopped relying on it for a the income I need to bring my life what I sought. I've accepted my position and its likely future. Forming an alternative has provided far greater reward that logging onto a forum and verbally bashing my industry counterparts.

Well played and well said Bricktop.....Good Luck!