Stop blaming the Delta TA

[Twisted Mind]

Titans10,

You should consider yourself very lucky. Not every one is lucky enough to have entered the profession when you did. Wave took what guys like you left for him to take.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, true enough, but it was a conscious sell out. Simply got tired of fighting the water, and needed health insurance while we began the business - and it helped to stay current-
And my legacy was in real danger of liquidation- it wasn't as if I could absolutely bank on my seniority number being there if I went to "sell cars" as another suggested. And Im still living a childhood dream of flying airliners.
But I hated flying airplanes that big for a regional.
I absolutely disagreed.
And still do.
Think what you want about my selling out, but it is absolutely unrealistic to expect trained, invested, willful pilots to give up on their careers bc you decide to vote their job off the property.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Wave,

I agree with you. You did what you pretty much had to to say in the industry. What a lot of old legacy pilots don't understand is people can't just sit ion the sidelines and wait for things to get better.

 

[titans10]

Titans10,

You should consider yourself very lucky. Not every one is lucky enough to have entered the profession when you did. Wave took what guys like you left for him to take.

I am not luck I was furloughed 5 plus years. I was trying to find a job in the 90's when almost every commuter/regionals was hiring. Never considered PFT. I was not lucky as you said. I just stayed where I was. I did not sell out.

 

[titans10]

Wave,

I agree with you. You did what you pretty much had to to say in the industry. What a lot of old legacy pilots don't understand is people can't just sit ion the sidelines and wait for things to get better.

Disagree I and every other furlough guy I know did not do what wave did. Over 50 that I know of.

 

[titans10]

Well, true enough, but it was a conscious sell out. Simply got tired of fighting the water, and needed health insurance while we began the business - and it helped to stay current-
And my legacy was in real danger of liquidation- it wasn't as if I could absolutely bank on my seniority number being there if I went to "sell cars" as another suggested. And Im still living a childhood dream of flying airliners.
But I hated flying airplanes that big for a regional.
I absolutely disagreed.
And still do.
Think what you want about my selling out, but it is absolutely unrealistic to expect trained, invested, willful pilots to give up on their careers bc you decide to vote their job off the property.

Wave,

You had a choice like I and others had. I did a lot of other jobs as did others. Don 't make excuses.

 

[Twisted Mind]

titans,

That is it? One five year furlough. If that is your idea of bad luck. I would like some of your bad luck.

 

[waveflyer]

Wave,

You had a choice like I and others had. I did a lot of other jobs as did others. Don 't make excuses.

What excuse? I said it was a sellout. But with all the objectivity I can summon, it doesn't hold a candle to those who actually VOTE to outsource. And I don't understand the point titans. Are you really counting on the furloughed and up and coming who are fighting for a career to hold the line AFTER major airline pilots voted to outsource? Is that what you were expecting?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Wave,

You had a choice like I and others had. I did a lot of other jobs as did others. Don 't make excuses.

I'm a little confused here--maybe I don't understand exactly what you're accusing each other of, but what's the issue? I can see someone arguing that a legacy might be "selling out" by agreeing to outsourcing for something in return. I'm not giving anyone crap for this, but I can see the rationale behind the argument. They're "selling" some of their flying for raises or other benefit. Got it.

But how is the pilot who takes a regional job a sellout? It wasn't his idea; he didn't have any part in the creation of his position. He just took a job that was freely offered out. How does a legacy pilot "sell" or agree to outsource some of his flying in return for a raise upfront, and then have the nerve to bitch at the guy who took the job that his deal created? He didn't create this situation; you did. If you don't want a regional pilot flying "your" passengers, then don't give away or sell that flying. Don't blame him for buying what you freely sold.

I dunno; maybe I'm looking at this wrong.

Bubba

 

[Twisted Mind]

Bubba,

Exactly! Then they make it a requirement to work at said sold out position to get to the "good job".

 

[Twisted Mind]

Bubba,

Exactly! Then they make it a requirement to work at said sold out position to get to the "good job".

 

[titans10]

I'm a little confused here--maybe I don't understand exactly what you're accusing each other of, but what's the issue? I can see someone arguing that a legacy might be "selling out" by agreeing to outsourcing for something in return. I'm not giving anyone crap for this, but I can see the rationale behind the argument. They're "selling" some of their flying for raises or other benefit. Got it.

But how is the pilot who takes a regional job a sellout? It wasn't his idea; he didn't have any part in the creation of his position. He just took a job that was freely offered out. How does a legacy pilot "sell" or agree to outsource some of his flying in return for a raise upfront, and then have the nerve to bitch at the guy who took the job that his deal created? He didn't create this situation; you did. If you don't want a regional pilot flying "your" passengers, then don't give away or sell that flying. Don't blame him for buying what you freely sold.

I dunno; maybe I'm looking at this wrong.

Bubba

Nope. Idid not create this. Never got a chance to until this past contract. Voted a big h...l No.

 

[titans10]

titans,

That is it? One five year furlough. If that is your idea of bad luck. I would like some of your bad luck.

You can have it. Good luck.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Nope. Idid not create this. Never got a chance to until this past contract. Voted a big h...l No.

Well, I wasn't referring to you (or anyone else specifically) as an individual, but obviously certain pilot groups have collectively. You know, democracy and all...

Bubba

 

[Twisted Mind]

Titans,

How many regional pilots do you think would trade places with you? I think they all suffer far more than you ever have. Yet they show up with a smile on their faces.

 

[Sedona16]

That is incorrect. You must not be familiar with the home construction industry. Wages for skilled labor rise and fall with aggregate demand. And I'm sure that if I sat down and thought about this for a while, there would be many other occupations that have seen wages rise commensurate with labor supply shortfalls.

Mortgage brokers

 

[ultrarunner]

Titans,

How many regional pilots do you think would trade places with you? I think they all suffer far more than you ever have. Yet they show up with a smile on their faces.

If a sub-contractor shows up at my hut to do work, I'd expect the smile! Not my issue he chose to work for the sub and not the GC....

 

[xjhawk]

You have a lack of insight. DO you really think most of us as the regional level choose to work here? Most of us are products of circumstances. We work here because this is where we were told was the first stepping stone to get to the majors. Maybe you big shot big plane flyers should question your companies on why they hire less qualified pilots with limited time and experience because they fit an HR need or some notion that some formula by some statistic company says lower time pilots are more trainable.

 

[doh]

If a sub-contractor shows up at my hut to do work, I'd expect the smile! Not my issue he chose to work for the sub and not the GC....

You can expect anything you want. You'll actually get what you pay for. In the case of airlines like Delta, the multiple subcontractors make the product extremely inconsistent.