Still think we're better off without ALPA?

[CitationLover]

Amen, Dizel. For those who say, "Hire your own attorney," here's the scenario.

You get called in but say "I'll bring my attorney." They say, never mind, you're fired.

It takes you a couple years to get your job back and then its with a LARGE target on you. Guess what happens on your next sim ride?

With ALPA, there's a system of discipline and appeal that happen WHILE you're still employed.

Yeah, that's worth 2% to me.

No your suspended for two years without pay while ALPA gets your job back. It's no different.

 

[jayme]

During those two years, who pays the mortgage?

 

[Fubijaakr]

No your suspended for two years without pay while ALPA gets your job back. It's no different.

Again, you have NO CLUE how ALPA disciplinary systems work.

 

[CitationLover]

Again, you have NO CLUE how ALPA disciplinary systems work.

How long was a moderator here suspended without pay (represented by NPA and ALPA) and fired? How about the executive leadership that TSA fired willy nilly? It takes awhile.

 

[CitationLover]

During those two years, who pays the mortgage?

Your trained to safely guide 150 people through the air at 450 knots and you ask this helpless question. No wonder our country is falling apart.

 

[Fubijaakr]

No your suspended for two years without pay while ALPA gets your job back. It's no different.

Wrongo, ACE. In our system, if you get suspended pending disciplinary action, its WITH pay.

 

[CitationLover]

Tell that to the mec leadership who was fired at Trans States. They got back pay AFTER they got their job back. The ole, "you can grieve it" CBA demolishing tool.

Love,
ACE

 

[ultrarunner]

An inhouse union is pie-in-the-sky. I'll vote for it but I guarantee within 3 years of starting an inhouse folks will realize the need for a union like ALPA.

You better get on the phone to swapa and apa and tell them they've made a big mistake. I'm sure they'll run right over to alpa.

 

[CitationLover]

jetBlue votes in ALPA followed by TWA pilots lawsuit wins followed by 3-5% assessment.

Edit: off topic an excellent NFL Network documentary on Tom Landry on now.

 

[Dizel8]

jetBlue votes in ALPA followed by TWA pilots lawsuit wins followed by 3-5% assessment.

Well, that would seem unlikely, can you point to a time in ALPA history when this has occurred, not arguing, just asking.

Secondly, even at 5%, the JetBlue pilot group, considering the many areas where we are trailing our peers, would still probably come out ahead and we would have seat at the big boys table when our contract is discussed.

 

[ultrarunner]

If I recall correctly, once the damages trial is over and a damage award set, that cost will be covered by ALPA's underwriter. Not that the cost won't ultimately won't be passed on, but not by direct assessment.

 

[fifty30retard]

jetBlue votes in ALPA followed by TWA pilots lawsuit wins followed by 3-5% assessment.

Edit: off topic an excellent NFL Network documentary on Tom Landry on now.

Back on topic. When has ALPA ever assessed anyone for any legal case? Answer: Never. Not once in 80 years. It gets sued all the time, but so does jetblue. $85 Million in liquid assets, with insurance and reinsurance is plenty to cover any eventual settlement.

Your company hacks lied to you. They (Sandman) said it was a $4.5 billion deal, AMR/TWA, the reality was there were only $500,000 in assets left from the TWA carcass in the end. Reality and Sandman speak are not on the same track.

 

[Lake Alice]

From insurance to ALPA we're not dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[Fins Up]

Perfect analogy, you need $5,000,000 for an effective start-up. AirTran and Jazz both had access to ALPA's MCF after certification, and B6 would have as well with a similar pilot size.

Would you be willing to be assessed $2,000 individually for an in-house start up? How would the in house fare against a hostile kicked in the teeth management team? What resources would it have? How much would renting professional services from ALPA cost? How much would that assessment be?

Don't fool yourself, the last election was won by a greedy management team intent on keeping you unrepresented so they can keep the revenue for themselves and keep you in a blue fog, anticipating anticipation, and nothing else. ALPA would've been a monetary game changer for them now and they just got a 2 year reprieve from it, and very large bonuses for the delay.

Back on topic. When has ALPA ever assessed anyone for any legal case? Answer: Never. Not once in 80 years. It gets sued all the time, but so does jetblue. $85 Million in liquid assets, with insurance and reinsurance is plenty to cover any eventual settlement.

Your company hacks lied to you. They (Sandman) said it was a $4.5 billion deal, AMR/TWA, the reality was there were only $500,000 in assets left from the TWA carcass in the end. Reality and Sandman speak are not on the same track.

I agree with you there. For too many JB folks the only information they had was what the company was feeding them. I'm sure ALPA's insurance policy is massive. I wouldn't expect to see much, if any, assessment.

 

[CitationLover]

Back on topic. When has ALPA ever assessed anyone for any legal case? Answer: Never. Not once in 80 years. It gets sued all the time, but so does jetblue. $85 Million in liquid assets, with insurance and reinsurance is plenty to cover any eventual settlement.

Your company hacks lied to you. They (Sandman) said it was a $4.5 billion deal, AMR/TWA, the reality was there were only $500,000 in assets left from the TWA carcass in the end. Reality and Sandman speak are not on the same track.

I was just hoping. But sure a large insurance payout wouldn't jack up their rates. I think TWA pilots are asking for a lot more than $85 million (I think it starts with a b). I guess the hacks lied but ALPA destroyed documents, etc. Whose the one acting guilty?

The only things the folks in Herndon care about is the folks in Herndon.

 

[CitationLover]

Secondly, even at 5%, the JetBlue pilot group, considering the many areas where we are trailing our peers, would still probably come out ahead and we would have seat at the big boys table when our contract is discussed.

What recent ALPA home run are you using as evidence here? Would that be fatboy rolling over directly against the membership on age 65 costing EVERY FO thousands in potential earnings? In terms of real dollars are contracts even to where they were 10 years ago? How about that current oaf running the FAA cow tailing to the ATA on the latest ATP requirement being cut in half? That outstanding negotiating team really got a TA done over at AAI?!

The only truth in your statement is the last sentence except you forgot "and discussed and discussed and discussed and discussed and discussed....."

But hey I heard ALPA bought some cheap Greek bonds, so they've got that going for them......

 

[fifty30retard]

What recent ALPA home run are you using as evidence here?

FEDEX. Only four months to hammer out a new contract.

Alaska. 21% this year in 401K company funding. 13% defined, 8% profit sharing.

Hawaiian.

AirTran's TA, with 30% payraises.

Delta Northwest prepackaged acquisition and seniority integration.

You were saying?

 

[CitationLover]

FEDEX. Only four months to hammer out a new contract.

You really believe B6 is in the same fiscal shape as FedEx? A rising tide raises all boats on it, when you make money hand over fist, things are a lot easier to hash out. You see that at B6?

Alaska. 21% this year in 401K company funding. 13% defined, 8% profit sharing.

Outstanding. Good for them. Hope you can approach this. Again a company in much better fiscal shape than B6.

AirTran's TA, with 30% payraises.

What will be their immediate payraise (not some TA) merging with a non ALPA carrier?

Delta Northwest prepackaged acquisition and seniority integration.

You were saying?

Quite the rarity here. If you believe the rumors I hear the APA integrates well.


How many contract negotiations have dragged out? Scope concessions? Loss of 5 years of income for all FOs? Failure to gain meaningful rest regulations?

 

[fifty30retard]

You really believe B6 is in the same fiscal shape as FedEx? A rising tide raises all boats on it, when you make money hand over fist, things are a lot easier to hash out. You see that at B6?



Outstanding. Good for them. Hope you can approach this. Again a company in much better fiscal shape than B6.




What will be their immediate payraise (not some TA) merging with a non ALPA carrier?




Quite the rarity here. If you believe the rumors I hear the APA integrates well.


How many contract negotiations have dragged out? Scope concessions? Loss of 5 years of income for all FOs? Failure to gain meaningful rest regulations?

You asked for one success, I gave you 5. Each time you deflected poorly.

 

[CitationLover]

You asked for one success, I gave you 5. Each time you deflected poorly.

No I asked for a home run. If you think B6 is just as healthy financially as FedEx then you need to pee in a cup.

 

[Dizel8]

Nearjetlover,

"How about that current oaf running the FAA cow tailing to the ATA on the latest ATP requirement being cut in half?"

I guess you were unaware, that jetblue believes that the requirements for being an F/O under 121 should be even lower than that, as written in the "Aero Safety" magazine. Yep, I found it ironic as well.

Of course, considering how far we are behind our peers, even those who have gone through Ch.11's, no wonder jetblue is trying to attract those still living in their parents basement!

 

[Dizel8]

No I asked for a home run. If you think B6 is just as healthy financially as FedEx then you need to pee in a cup.

No, jetblue and FDX are two different animals, so let's just compare Jetblue to the other major passenger carrying airlines, that being the case, why is it, with jetblue pilots being the most productive, that the overall package is so far behind?

 

[CitationLover]

No, jetblue and FDX are two different animals, so let's just compare Jetblue to the other major passenger carrying airlines, that being the case, why is it, with jetblue pilots being the most productive, that the overall package is so far behind?

Off the top of my head (thinking of airlines flying similar sized airplanes)

Better than
United
US Airways
Frontier
Spirit
Allegiant
Virgin
Republic

Close to
Continental
Air Tran
America West

Worse than
SWA
Delta
Hawaiian
American
Alaska


If you think bringing a third party into this will loosen management's wallet, then by all means bring them in. I'd only think they'd get pissed off and entrench further than what you'd think they'd do. It's as simple as that in my eyes. I don't have a dog in the fight though, you do, thats why you vote and I don't. I'm just offering an opinion here.

Nearjetlover,
"How about that current oaf running the FAA cow tailing to the ATA on the latest ATP requirement being cut in half?"

I guess you were unaware, that jetblue believes that the requirements for being an F/O under 121 should be even lower than that, as written in the "Aero Safety" magazine. Yep, I found it ironic as well.

Of course, considering how far we are behind our peers, even those who have gone through Ch.11's, no wonder jetblue is trying to attract those still living in their parents basement!

If thats true, then its really sad. Don't work there or go there and it will stop. The ATA is a cancer on safety, you get no argument from me on that. jetBlue is nothing special on this, every airline wants this. My point was that here we have "one of our own ALPA brothers" running the FAA and he cowtails.

 

[fifty30retard]

No, jetblue and FDX are two different animals, so let's just compare Jetblue to the other major passenger carrying airlines, that being the case, why is it, with jetblue pilots being the most productive, that the overall package is so far behind?

Because it is a bad place to work.

As for the other guy, I'd say Alaska and Hawaiian both have ALPA home runs in the last 2 years, and just because you post last doesn't mean you are right. In your case on anything.

 

[Dizel8]

CL,

You might want to recrunch some of your numbers and look at the overall cost to the operation as it pertains to pilots. If you took the time to look at some objective numbers posted, say the MIT airline analysis, you will see that the JetBlue pilots are amongst the most productive pilots, if not the most productive, helping the company's bottom line, yet the compensation and benefit package does not, far from it, reflect that!

 

[Fubijaakr]

why is it, with jetblue pilots being the most productive, that the overall package is so far behind?

Could it be that there is no Union? Ya think? You'll get what they think you're worth. And that ain't much considering VX gets clowns to fly your type jets for $50 an hour LESS.

 

[CitationLover]

CL,

You might want to recrunch some of your numbers and look at the overall cost to the operation as it pertains to pilots. If you took the time to look at some objective numbers posted, say the MIT airline analysis, you will see that the JetBlue pilots are amongst the most productive pilots, if not the most productive, helping the company's bottom line, yet the compensation and benefit package does not, far from it, reflect that!

I was going off the top of my head no crunching. No one is questioning the deserving of more pay here, rather does bringing a third party (ALPA) in actually accomplish getting more real dollars to you.

 

[fifty30retard]

I was going off the top of my head no crunching. No one is questioning the deserving of more pay here, rather does bringing a third party (ALPA) in actually accomplish getting more real dollars to you.

email [email protected] , you may learn about current events in real time. The third party resources your own pilot negotiators, your own pilot negotiators are not a "third party". None whatsoever is the order of the day with your management team, as in no money coming to fix anything...ever. Enjoy prideful ignorance.

 

[Lake Alice]

You wont win against Daryl. He's right and your wrong. That's what we get for hiring someone with ZERO jet time and putting him in the left seat. He's just happy to be here.