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Still Happy At Avantair

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We took off from the Caicos....about 30 minutes after a P180 did. Both of us were going to Wilmington NC for customs....

He landed about 10 minutes before we got there. Not bad considering we were in a LR45:)
 
just saw on ainonline that avant air posted a 4.8 million quarterly loss up from 3.8 last year. however, revenues were up 52.9%

that's not a big deal if those revenues numbers continue. is this just early growth and start up expenses? fuel? any idea?

i think adding the phenoms would be a great move, offer both
 
realmanofgenius said:
just saw on ainonline that avant air posted a 4.8 million quarterly loss up from 3.8 last year. however, revenues were up 52.9%

that's not a big deal if those revenues numbers continue. is this just early growth and start up expenses? fuel? any idea?

i think adding the phenoms would be a great move, offer both
Click to expand...

I think you are right about early growth expenses. There is a "scale" effect in the fractional business. You need a certain number of airplanes operating to be efficient and to cover all of your owners adequately. If you have a broken airplane or you just can't get to your customer in a remote location due to a scheduling conflict, you need to outsource the flying to a charter operator - and that gets expensive for you (especially if you need a jet covering for a more fuel-efficient P180). Repositioning costs can also get expensive when you don't have enough aircraft for good coverage - having to fly a few hours to cover a revenue flight in another state can get expensive when you multiply that by 20 flights per day. You need a certain number of aircraft to provide good coverage and avoid some costly outsourcing. I am sure Avantair is approaching that scale number as they add more airplanes.

Everything takes longer at a growing company until systems, processes, procedures and policies are firmly established and followed. For example, a company might not have policies for buying certain goods or parts from a type of vendor. Buying from many different vendors for the same good could get expensive. That is why you consolidate vendors and buy in bulk - imagine doing that for thousands of items. But those types of negotiations take time and start ups tend to focus more on operations initially. I presume Avantair is becoming more mature and finding ways to be more efficient and cost effective with time.

I agree that the Phenom 100 will be interesting for Avantair. Again, it is small enough (and the price point is low enough) that it fits into its niche - these airplanes won't necessarily compete with Netjets Citation Xs or Falcon 2000s. With its low price point, the Phenom 100 would actually compete better with the P180 on low-passenger, short-haul flights - but now Avantair will offer both. Looks like it would be fun to fly like the P180.
 
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Good points J-Rod. I agree that scale is critical to an operation like Avantair. For those of you who are on the fence about potentially flying a P180, check out these photos I just found:

Exterior:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?... Ninagv') beqre ol cubgb_vq QRFP&photo_nr=75

Exterior:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?... Ninagv') BEQRE OL cubgb_vq QRFP&photo_nr=13

Cockpit of Avanti II (Pro Line 21 equipped):

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5987907&nseq=106

Interior of Avanti (looks a lot more comfy than the L45 I fly - probably one reason why Avantair shares are selling quickly at the low price point vs. other fractionals):

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6036946&nseq=71
 
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Nice pics Heavy Set.

was surprised when I counted 22 Avantair P180s flying at the same time today - that's a pretty good number. Quite a few heading to either sunny Florida or Grand Junction.
 
Just finished up my first tour New Year's Eve. Had a great time, flew a ton and actually got across the Mississippi. Good fun!
 
Sorry to take so long to get back here. I'll admit, I'm beat from all of the overtime that I CHOSE to work over the holidays. (I wrote "CHOSE" that way to prevent the "forced overtime" flame) Besides, at roughly $300/day+per diem for 1st year F/O overtime pay, my arm does not have to be twisted very hard!

I'm also impressed by all of the resumes that I received that I was able to forward to our recruiter. I'm only too happy to help...

Geronimo, congrats on your first tour! It only gets better...
 
realmanofgenius said:
just saw on ainonline that avant air posted a 4.8 million quarterly loss up from 3.8 last year. however, revenues were up 52.9%

that's not a big deal if those revenues numbers continue. is this just early growth and start up expenses? fuel? any idea?

i think adding the phenoms would be a great move, offer both
Click to expand...

A big part of our losses stem from the fact that nearly every-other leg is a repo leg. The "powers that be" forecast profitability for Avantair in the 3rd quarter of 2008. That's because we'll have enough aircraft (and crews) so we won't have to repo every other leg. It doesn't take a genious to realize that we don't make money on the repo legs...

The Phenoms will lower the entry-level share cost. That will make the fractional world available to folks with a much more modest income level...
 
AftCG182 said:
Sorry to take so long to get back here. I'll admit, I'm beat from all of the overtime that I CHOSE to work over the holidays. (I wrote "CHOSE" that way to prevent the "forced overtime" flame) Besides, at roughly $300/day+per diem for 1st year F/O overtime pay, my arm does not have to be twisted very hard!

I'm also impressed by all of the resumes that I received that I was able to forward to our recruiter. I'm only too happy to help...

Geronimo, congrats on your first tour! It only gets better...
Click to expand...

Yup, same here. Worked 11 days straight. 55.8 block. :laugh:

I personally don't think I will be doing that again, but as a reward, they did send me home non stop on a very expensive, very classy flight. :cool:
 
AftCG182 said:
A big part of our losses stem from the fact that nearly every-other leg is a repo leg. The "powers that be" forecast profitability for Avantair in the 3rd quarter of 2008. That's because we'll have enough aircraft (and crews) so we won't have to repo every other leg. It doesn't take a genious to realize that we don't make money on the repo legs...

The Phenoms will lower the entry-level share cost. That will make the fractional world available to folks with a much more modest income level...
Click to expand...

I understand Avantair also operates an G100/Astra to cover broken down P180s too. Given the tight cabin in the Astra, I would expect that P180 owners would be disappointed when it showed up instead of the P180.

When are the Phenom 100s expected to arrive?
 
johnsonrod said:
I understand Avantair also operates an G100/Astra to cover broken down P180s too. Given the tight cabin in the Astra, I would expect that P180 owners would be disappointed when it showed up instead of the P180.

When are the Phenom 100s expected to arrive?
Click to expand...

The Phenom's are supposed to start coming in '09. I'm not sure what the deal is with the Astra. All I heard was that someone had an idea, the Astra had something to do with it, then the idea didn't work out.

It was before my time here...
 
bailout said:
1,200 - 1,300 total at .80 at 43,000, but who cares, I dont pay for fuel,. ;)
Click to expand...

You're right, I suppose it doesn't matter. I think I was going to try to play the efficiency/environmentally friendly card, but I had a few beers in me at the time. Now I'm not sure what point I was trying to make...:beer:
 
......

Doesn't look like much fun to me. Just a bunch of gigantic screens. Blah.

But I guess that's the wave of the future, nothing really to be done about it I suppose.
 
I think that the sole purpose of the Phenom is to lower the share price. There's big potential market for the fractionals, but the share price is still out of reach for many of those interested people and smaller companies. The math is simple: at the cost of the Piaggio, shares at Avantair are already popular. The Phenom is less than half the cost of the Avanti, so if the share price decreases accordingly, fractional flying becomes affordable by many more people. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me this morning, but in theory it looks great.
 
AftCG182 said:
I think that the sole purpose of the Phenom is to lower the share price. There's big potential market for the fractionals, but the share price is still out of reach for many of those interested people and smaller companies. The math is simple: at the cost of the Piaggio, shares at Avantair are already popular. The Phenom is less than half the cost of the Avanti, so if the share price decreases accordingly, fractional flying becomes affordable by many more people. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me this morning, but in theory it looks great.
Click to expand...

That's true. And when you think about it, there are more people out there who can afford cheaper transportation than more expensive transportation. Why look at buying a share in an Ultra or Beechjet when your average load is 2-3 people and your average flight is less than 500 miles (say LA basin to LAS, SDL or SFO)? The Phenom 100 can handle those loads and those mission requirements with ease. And if you need more lift, you get access to another Phenom or use a larger P180. The Phenom will expose more people to the fractional concept at that low price point - so other fractionals might benefit in the long-run too. I think Alpha Flyers' Grob Jet will also compete effectively at the lower price end but it will be located predominently on the East Coast.

Sounds like Avantair ordered the Phenom 100 to protect its segment of the market - the one with more potential total customers (lower price points).
 
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