State of fractionals including NJA

[gutshotdraw]

Um, guys? Just so you know, at NJI when two Captains are flying together, the PIC on the paperwork is based on the date of pilot upgrade to Captain in the Gulfstream fleet. Not date of hire. When I was still in the IV, I flew with one of the NJA Captains who is about 4 years senior to me on DOH but I was the PIC. There are a few other scenarios where the "senior" pilot acts as SIC when paired with a "junior" date of hire pilot.

HOWEVER ALERT! HOWEVER ALERT!

As the integration moves forward, that could change. The FOM has not been revised on this point although I expect it will be at some point in the future.

Okay, resume pi$$ing contest.

 

[o2bflyn]

Good point. That's why I'm always nice to the flight attendants! Wouldn't want want any of this...
uke:. Or worse.

lol...good move.

 

[gunfyter]

Okay, resume pi$$ing contest.

Why does there have to be a contest?

I don't care what seat I sit in. I only care what it says on my pay check.

I am too happy working for this great Company to be brought down by this stuff.

 

[cush]

The only thing being brought down is our collective IQ's with people like wolfpack. Pi$$ing contest over. He's now on my ignore list.

 

[ozpilot]

I don't care what seat I sit in. I only care what it says on my pay check.

Agreed. A lot of times I fly with junior captains. If my partner has not been PIC for awhile I'll offer him or her the slot for the week. And I don't just mean "you fly from the left seat and I'll fly from the right". I mean calling the company and having the names switched on the paperwork. If your going to be PIC you will be PIC.

 

[Diesel]

I agree I am now dumber for spending the week with wolfy.... damn did I say that out loud?

 

[B727FA]

Like I said... Once NJI pilots are dues paying union members, we'll take care of ourselves within the union. NJI will operate on a separate certificate and there will be a NJI council, field office, local, Chapter, branch, or whatever you call it.

Why? There's no need...but go ahead and lay it out for us. Explain it to us like we're 4 year-olds. Logic isn't connecting; perhaps condisention will.

 

[B727FA]

Who here honestly thinks that NJI pilots will become dues paying members of the the union, and have no say so in their own organization?

NJI pilots will be part of NJASAP and abide by the bylaws which govern it, but they will have a seat at the leadership table. They will fill positions within the various committees of the union. They will be recognized, they will carry a vote, and they will shape the future career of NetJets Pilots.

Apparently you do b/c you're the one demanding your own local...not anyone else. Single carrier, single list, different fleets--what am I missing here?

 

[B727FA]

Clearly, 300+ pilots operating on a separate ticket dealing with separate CP's and managers, separate training departments, etc. etc. will have their own local council within the larger NJASAP to deal with the issues pertaining to NJI operations.

Again, why? Case in point: when the S5 (non-represented) FA's were merged into the RAH (IBT 135) list in mid-'05, they went under that contract...that list, etc. RAH operates three certificates, 3 POIs, 3 CPs, 3 training departments, safety departments...it's like Noah's Ark over there +1. But it's on ONE list, ONE CBA, ONE MEC...there is NO reason to be afraid of not "having a voice." You have one...it's called NJASAP. You ARE being represented...what's the issue?

Question for NJA guys: does every fleet have a local to represent "issues pertaining to [their] operations?" That's essentially what Pack is demanding. Do the BBJ drivers have a "mini-local" b/c heaven knows that an Ultra CA can't speak to "issues pertaining" to the BBJ in the Union. The NJI fleet is the G--how are those "issues" as a fleet difference really any different than the NJA fleets? NJI is the G fleet. That alone doesn't ensure a "seat at the table." It's just one more horse in the stable.

 

[ozpilot]

Question for NJA guys: does every fleet have a local to represent "issues pertaining to [their] operations?" That's essentially what Pack is demanding. Do the BBJ drivers have a "mini-local" b/c heaven knows that an Ultra CA can't speak to "issues pertaining" to the BBJ in the Union. The NJI fleet is the G--how are those "issues" as a fleet difference really any different than the NJA fleets? NJI is the G fleet. That alone doesn't ensure a "seat at the table." It's just one more horse in the stable.

Careful now B727FA, I know your new to the company (congrats btw!) but your making way too much sense

... and the answer to your question is no.

 

[Hogprint]

Did Wolfpack leave his username on an FBO's computer open? Whats up Wolfie?

Not sure what the animosity is all about. I haven't heard any kind of "talk" on the road about this. As far as I know the leadership hasn't been talking about this either. I hope this is just bad rumors going around or FUDD at the worst.

 

[jetlag7]

Jet,

Do you believe EJM should be a union operation?

No I don't believe so. In the case of EJM, the pilots aren't much of an issue so much as the type of flying they perform.

Charter sell-offs and supplemental lift are a necessary part of our business that will probably never go away. (especially during peak periods) When we do have to charter, I would rather EJM pilots do the flying than some outside vendor (keep everything under one roof so to speak). -- It would however, be less than "ideal" to end up in a situation where a significant amount of NJ flying is being flown by EJM.

In all honesty, I think this is a "self-correcting" problem as the company has already made it a directive to keep the number of charter sell-offs down for fiscal reasons so the argument is probably moot.

 

[jetlag7]

And opened a big can of whoop*ss within the union at the same time.

US "NJI" brethren have walked through this alley before, and trust me brother... I bring a machine gun and grenades to a knife fight.

Don't think we're just going to roll over and play nice while you guys run everything from CMH.

Well, at least you called me "brother." That's a start I suppose....

I understand uncertainty and fear can stimulate hostility in some folks. On that note, I hope you recognize that we are not your enemy.

Please remain on your feet. None of us expect anyone to "roll over" at all. We're a much stronger, capable group standing together while working toward a common end than we would be rolling-around in the mud.

Welcome to the family

 

[B727FA]

Careful now B727FA, I know your new to the company (congrats btw!) but your making way too much sense

... and the answer to your question is no.

Thanks, Oz...

I'm certainly not one wanting to overstep...but I've been through this very issue at my (now) last carrier...I acknowledge I'm being somewhat smarta$$ in my style, but, seriously, I'm asking, why?

I haven't heard Pack (or others who share his view) explain the slight, the unfairness, the plotting, the plan to exclude, etc. I hear them asking for something that doesn't exist in any other part of the NJ "family" of products. That, more than any threats of exclusion (real or imagined), serves to delay unity and the ability, as labor, to move NetJets forward as the leading place to own and work.

What's interesting, is when I've seen NJA and NJI folks airlining, I've asked them (as I've been eyeing NJ for a LONG time!), "how's that all resolved" (RE: the union/non-union tensions) and every person, from both certificates--going back over a year--have said, "Oh, that's all behind us now. It is what it is."

So, "what" and "why" now? Move on...and JOIN, don't ask to be separate. You can't be IN if you want an OUT.

 

[jetlag7]

No, I wasn't kidding. We DID in fact clog-up a gaping hole in our Domestic Scope with the NJA/NJI integration.

However, you bring up a very good point in that it was far from the ONLY gaping hole. Charter sell-offs and EJM will still have to be dealt with. We still have work to do on the Domestic Scope front.

Even in an operation like ours, scope matters and IS a relevant issue.

..... now, don't get me started on NJE trans-oceanic flying and the potential International Scope implications that beast could create for us at the bargaining table down the road.....

Not to resurrect a 3-year old thread, but it's been terribly disappointing to see this problem come to fruition.