Starchecker Survey

[TDK90]

Airnet guys, can you post your 1st year gross below and say what year it was? I'm trying to make some decisions based on possible income rather than SJS!

Thanks guys.

BTW if any Empire or MAC guys want to fess up as well, that would be great..Thanks again!

 

[starcheckdriver]

2004: $25,000 (That was for 8 months though)

2005: $29,200 (As of end of September)

 

[USC328]

January 2004 - December 2004

CMH Prop Floater for 10 months
Jet SIC 2 months
2 months of the old floater pay in Jan and Feb
On the road alot, worked quite a few 5 day weeks.

Travel Pay + Overtime + 1 charter + 2 months floater pay + per diem = $42,000 first year

 

[idratherfly4283]

usc328, isn't that about 21,000 more than you are making now as a first year fo?

 

[USC328]

Yep, but I made the change for more reasons than money. Day schedule, live at home, travel benefits, more job stability (AirNet is for sale and CEO has done a poor job of running company). Pay scales in the future are higher at regionals than pay scales at AirNet since they cut the pay scale to a 3% yearly increase as long as you have no right ups. If you have a right up, you may lose half your raise. 2nd right up, can lose your entire raise. I've talked to alot of Lear Captains who wish they left earlier before the money got too good. That is, they can't afford first year regional pay and very few, if any, Lear Captains are making a move from AirNet to Majors. There was no future to staying at AirNet long term. Better career progression by leaving to go to regionals. Does that answer your question? It's not all about the money, it's QOL. Nights get old and kills your social life.

USC328

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

what's a "right up"?

 

[avbug]

I think he meant maintenance squawks, as in "write-up."

 

[starchkr]

"In the year 2000"(Conan quote by the way)- $5500 (August-December)... ok, so i was an SIC those months, but hey you asked.

Don't remember any others, and i am afraid to look at my current paycheck because i know how long i have been here (and so do you now) and i still don't make much more than when i first started.

Perv, man you crazy breakin' it down as far as charters, travel and the rest.

I know you were just bustin his chops, but yeah, i believe he meant "write-ups" as well...but hey, now you see what flying a slow old RJ will do to the brain.

The pay raises do suck, they do not even keep up with Cost of Living Increases anymore...really sad, and yes i am one of those captains Perv is talking about. If i knew it would get like this i too would have left before the money became too "good" for lack of better word. I just cannot afford to take a large paycut with a family to take care of.

 

[USC328]

Ok, you all caught me on my grammer. Ya, I meant write ups and not mx ones at that. I meant disciplinary write ups. If you get one, you may, or most likely will lose half of your 3% raise for the year. If you have a second one that year, you lose all your raise. They have even written guys up for not putting the number of cycles on the paperwork. Small details, but they can have a large financial hit on you in the future. I'd say most Lear Captains are now only making around $70000-$80000 max. That's with the old raise system to get them there now. If your new to the company, your pay scale will be something like this:

40 hr a week/ base pay not including per diem ($36 a day IF away from base) or 5th nights
(add min of 12 hours a week for a fifth night at hourly rate X 52 wks)

1st year Prop $11.12/hr $23,129/yr 1st year
3% raise after first year: $11.45/hr $23,816/yr 2nd year
Jet SIC upgrade: add $2.88/hr

2nd year with AirNet as Jet SIC: $14.33/hr $29,806/yr 2nd year
3% raise after second year: $14.76/hr $30,700/yr 3rd year
3% raise after third year: $15.20 $31,616/yr 4th year

Lear Captain Upgrade add $5.88/hr
In 4th year upgrade = $21.08/hr $43,846.40 4th year
3% raise after fourth year = $21.71/hr $45,156.00 5th year
3% raise after fifth year = $22.36/hr $46,508.80 6th year

And so on.

At a Regional Airline (IE SkyWest)

Base pay (75 month guarantee and no per diem included)

1st year Jet FO $19.02/hr $17,118/yr
2nd year Jet FO $34.54/hr $31,086/yr
3rd year Jet FO $35.61/hr $32,049/yr
3rd year Jet CPT $59.54/hr $53,586/yr
4th year Jet FO $36.71/hr $33,039/yr
4th year Jet CPT $61.40/hr $55,260/yr
5th year Jet CPT $63.29/hr $56,961/yr


Hopefully this explains my long term pay dilemma with AirNet. 2nd year Jet FO at a regional already makes more a year at a base salary than 2nd year Jet FO base salary at AirNet. Fly safe everyone.

USC328

 

[starchkr]

DANG!!!!! I wish i could be making 70-80K right now...not me, i'm in the 48K range as a 5th year Capt. and that includes the years past when we got the good raises. Oh well, things may be changing soon, keeping my fingers crossed for new horizons.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

Oh well, things may be changing soon, keeping my fingers crossed for new horizons.

Horizons?? How about new Frontier(s)??

 

[CFI4LIFE]

January 2004 - December 2004

CMH Prop Floater for 10 months
Jet SIC 2 months
2 months of the old floater pay in Jan and Feb
On the road alot, worked quite a few 5 day weeks.

Travel Pay + Overtime + 1 charter + 2 months floater pay + per diem = $42,000 first year

Jeez "Purv," can you EVER give a simple answer? Or do you have to give your life story as well?

Anyway... Hope that pretty jet was worth leaving for!!!

 

[starchkr]

Yeah Haz-Mat, i thought about it after i submitted it and was just too lazy to go back and edit it. However i could not figure out anything to rhyme with UPS, so i figured that would have to do. I definately would not turn down the opportunity from Frontier either, as well as Southwest...those are the ones i am holding out for.

 

[psysicx]

But wouldn't it be smarter to wait for the Lear upgrade then go to a regional with uncertainty? And if pay was an issue why not go to Jetride?

 

[USC328]

When I left, JetRide was even worse than the freight side. Since then, management has changed.

USC328

 

[HAZ-MAT]

But wouldn't it be smarter to wait for the Lear upgrade then go to a regional with uncertainty? And if pay was an issue why not go to Jetride?

That is probably the most intelligent post you've done so far and I respect you for it!! It is still about 8-10 months from inital employment to a jet SIC spot, especially when you have a bid sheet like this week (4 spots). Sure you can go to a regional and make more money in 3 years or so, but the thing that people need to understand is regional airlines are out there as managements chess pieces. They'll dangle/move planes in front of the pilot group to get contracts ratified then take them away anyways. In no way am I disrespecting my fellow friends that have left AirNet for the regionals. I give them the upmost respect for going there for reasions of better QOL or being based in your home city.
What you are seeing right now is some SIC's are leaving AirNet to Jetride for that one question Psysicx asked. You can make more money over there. So I ask all of you out there... How about the option of coming to AirNet, fly props for a year, upgrade to Lear SIC, fly that for a year so you can get your type, then bid for a Lear PIC on the JetRide side when it comes open (or even a Lear 60 spot). So basically in a perfect world in year 3 you could have 2 type raitings and making $50-65. Not too shabby huh?

 

[freemind270]

good strategy if you want to fly corp or Frax

Hazmats suggestions are pretty good for guys going to airnet if they want to fly corporate .

I talked to a lot of captains before I left , they all told me the same thing that if I want to work for a major airline in the future then I should leave and get 121 experience I also spoke to a Southwest recruiter They said 135 time is not looked upon very favourably compared to 121 time they want to see guys who have worked with a lot of different people and a lot of experience dealing with people and thier unique problems

so if your goal is to fly for the airlines then go to a regional instead of airnet

But if your goal is to fly Frax or Corp then Airnet might be a good thing. but be careful about Jetride there are very few planes there , so movement will be slow and most of the jetride captains are career jetride so I dont know about upgrade times to captain there.

To Answer your original question You will make more money at a low pay regional like Chataqua after a few years compared to airnet .

back to a warm #$%^$YY and some ZZZZZZZZ''s
and the spelling police will have something to do

 

[starchkr]

While you will make more money going to the JR side of things, you can still make more money at a regional. Yes they can change things on you at a moments notice, but we do the same here at Airnet. I have had two bases closed on me within a year and this was because "management, and George" thought they could better serve the customers with the planes in different locations. So in all actuality this is what you state the regionals do as well. Now i am by no means starting a flame fest here, but simply pointing out that we do the same thing. Now JR has its problems as well, such as high time captains on our freight side bidding a certain SDL/ONT reserve spot and both being passed over for an off the street flex guy who already had a type...wrong YES, but that is how they operate. So the option of just spending a year in the LR and then going to JR as a captain (especially on the 60) is a little far fetched right now unless you get lucky and there are no Flex guys coming to us for a job. Now i am not saying it is impossible, just unlikely...but hey the 35 is much easier to get to, and like has already been said, there are few airplanes, and the movement will be very slow if you go over as an SIC. Soooooo...in all reality (GULP!!!!!) I must agree with Purv on this one and say that going to a regional versus staying at Airnet for any length of time is a good idea.

 

[psysicx]

I don't think the majors care where you get your time. Its just who you know. And why not go to the non Flex bases and get on with jetride? Can't you go from the left seat on the cargo side to the charter side? That way your building T-pic while you wait.

 

[MNR]

Ultimately I think it will depend on what your long term career goals are. My guess is that flying pax for a 121 carrier is much different than flying for a corporate charter (haveing never flown for a regional I cannot speak from personal experience). I would guess that the customer service aspect of the two is vastly different.

If your focus is too work for a Major one day then I think the 121 time will serve you better, time in a jet is time in a jet, but there is more than just flying time to consider when an HR person decides to hire you or not. Plus, I haven't heard this point made, you will meet more people who are also working their way toward a job with a Major. Each guy you work with that makes it there before you is one more contact/recommendation.

Same thing goes for moving to Jetride it could be a good stepping stone to a solid corporate Part 91 job. If that is what your ultimate goal is. Some consider that a viable career path and plan on sticking too that road. You could even decide to stay at Jetride.

Either way, I wouldn't trade the experience I got flying checks for 4 years for anything. Really the pay still looks like its pretty good for starting out in a 58 or a 310. From the last few bid sheets I have seen there is some movement in the props/sic jet positions. Maybe because its not as good pay-wise as it used to be. But too be able to work there for 4 years and come away with 4000 hours of multi time of which 1700 is in a Learjet. Well, I just thought it was a great place to work. I addition there are now more options so while Jetride might not be your choice it is an extra option that is avaiable too the guys flying for Airnet if that is where they think their career might lead them.