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9rj9 said:
Did you guys get a contract ?? Last time someone posted anything about Spirit you authorized a strike by 90 some percent, must have missed something.
Click to expand...

98% and still no...they have reached some agreements on a few sections but have not touched the pay and scheduling sections.

Mike A. told a recurrent class to plan on the negotiations dragging out through the next year...which seems amazing to me, that if they are planning on that how is that good faith bargaining?
 
It seems both max duty and max flying will be adjusted depending on the type of flying. In some cases shortened, in others lengthened. Numbers for duty are between 9-13h, for block between 7-11h.

From the: Cleveland Ohio Business News said:
...Instead of 16 hours' duty time, with eight hours off for rest and sleep, the airlines propose that maximum duty time range between nine and 13 hours. The exact amount -- detailed in a table attached to the airlines' letter to the FAA -- would depend on how many legs pilots fly in a shift and the time of day they start work.

At the same time, the airlines want to increase the maximum number of flight hours that pilots are allowed at the controls of the plane - it's now eight. Maximums instead would range from seven to 11 hours per shift, depending on legs flown and start times...
Click to expand...


http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/09/airlines_want_to_shorten_pilot.html


I am not sure if this will be a good thing or not. If they can max out my flying while minimizing duty, initially I would think that is a good thing. I can reach my target hours in less days, thus we can have more days off. No?

On the other hand most airline contracts already have a limit of 14 hours on duty. If it will only be reduced to 13, for other than regional airplanes that fly a ton of legs a day, that is not much of a gain.

Either way... this is quite complex to figure out but something tells me we are going to get f_ed. Just like we always do.
 
...thus we can have more days off. No?
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According to the head of crew planning, in their perfect world everyone at Spirit would fly 72 hours and have the minimum days off ( I watched him speak the words).
 
Mike Oxlong said:
According to the head of crew planning, in their perfect world everyone at Spirit would fly 72 hours and have the minimum days off ( I watched him speak the words).
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that. But I in my pref bid days I remember the best I could ever do was bidding minimum schedule, and trying to get days with high block time. The highest block you could find was 7.5h. So in order to get my min 80 or so hours I had to get 11-12 such days if I could. So I could end up with 18-19 days off which has happened a lot once I was senior. If the max block would have been higher like 10, I could have ended up with 22 days off.

Of course that is with pref bidding, and NK does not have that. Still we do have max line values, and the same logic could apply.
 
huncowboy said:
I don't want _crapbidding either. Not since they showed us what they can do with the schedules when they took 4 off away. That was just an example.
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In the meantime it sounds like you didn't mind flying blocks of 11 hours per duty period. Talking about opening a can of worms..
 
S40Sailor said:
In the meantime it sounds like you didn't mind flying blocks of 11 hours per duty period. Talking about opening a can of worms..
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No, I would not mind flying 11h a day when I can be on duty for 14h and fly 8h a day as it is right now anyhow. And that is thanks to our contract ONLY, not the FAA. As far as the FAA cares you could block in 16 minus the show and leave time due to unforeseen circumstances. I would rather be able to fly 11h in 13h instead which is 3x3-4h leg. Not sure what makes you more tired, sitting in FLL or in the plane making money and working toward your monthly goals in less days. For me it is the same, so I might as well sit in the airplane, get paid, and not listen to the crew room BS.

But my point is, that this whole thing does not apply to Spirit. Yeah LA and Lima could be gone. I can live without those. When I've already sacrificed a day of my life for work, I would rather work than sit in a pub or hotel for 24h. Other than that, this will have a small impact on staffing needs at NK. I think.
 
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Beetle007 said:
It looks like they recommended duty time with no flight time limitation.

If there is a flight time limitation, they recommended between 7 and 11 hours depending on the start of the duty period.
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Maybe I don't understand the ALPA email with their proposal...

I thought is was a max block time of 7-9 hours depending on what time of day you start...and maximum duty times vary by time of start and number of legs...

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7253/73855767.jpg
 
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Hi!

Yes, you don't understand the ALPA proposal.

It is less tiring to do two, 5 hour trans-con legs (10 flight hours) in a 12 hour duty day, than it is to do 7+45, with 7 legs, in a 16 hour day.

It would also be nice to not have to do 240 hours of consecutive reserve duty, and then be called, at 0200, for a 16+ hour duty day!!!

cliff
NBO
 
Yes, you don't understand the ALPA proposal.
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Thank you for clearing that up for me...I understand it much better now.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I'm correct in my interpretation of this...maybe someone can check my understanding...

According to the tables...

Show 0430
Number of legs 4

Maximum duty is: 7.0
Maximum block is: 9.0

or...

Show 1115
Number of legs 2

Maximum duty is: 13.0
Maximum block is: 9.0

If I am not understanding correctly, please help me to understand.
 
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Mike Oxlong said:
Thank you for clearing that up for me...I understand it much better now.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I'm correct in my interpretation of this...maybe someone can check my understanding...

According to the tables...

Show 0430
Number of legs 4

Maximum duty is: 7.0
Maximum block is: 9.0

or...

Show 1115
Number of legs 2

Maximum duty is: 13.0
Maximum block is: 9.0

If I am not understanding correctly, please help me to understand.
Click to expand...

No clue what atpcliff is talking about. That is how I interpret it also. ALPA email does not talk about anything more than 9h block. My guess is increase in block (beyond the 9h) must be coming from the airlines' side of the panel but I have not seen their proposal written down yet. Only the hint in that article.

My feeling is that ALPA published their proposal to let us know, what they were trying to accomplish. I am afraid they have felt the need to do this because the final version will be a good bit worse.
 
Mike Oxlong said:
Maybe I don't understand the ALPA email with their proposal...

I thought is was a max block time of 7-9 hours depending on what time of day you start...and maximum duty times vary by time of start and number of legs...
Click to expand...

I was referencing the proposal made by the airline members of the aviation rulemaking committee. The airlines committee recommended between 7 and 11 hours depending on start time and legs.

The ALPA proposal is much more restrictive on flight time and slightly more restrictive on duty.
 
Am I the only person pissed of that ALPA is trying to increase our flight time to 9 hours? I thought 8 hours was just fine.
 
Beetle007 said:
Am I the only person pissed of that ALPA is trying to increase our flight time to 9 hours? I thought 8 hours was just fine.
Click to expand...

But look at the trade off. Duty reduced from 16 to 9-13. You can't go to sleep until you are off duty. Why are you guys sticking to block so much? 8 or 9? Who cares? You are still at work just not behind the actual controls. You can't rest. moth point though because the ALPA version is not what the rule will be.
 
In the new proposal are the maximum flight times drop dead times? No more legal to start, legal to finish?

I'm pretty sure we have all have days with way more than 8 hours of block, my record was close to 12 hours for a day.
 

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