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Spirit TA
- Thread starter lostplnetairman
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How about this...our ALPA Laywer representing us during negotiations said the courts would look at the TA and costs of the strike and the court might give us a worse contract.
Either way we are screwed if we vote no. Either we have a horrible ALPA laywer representing us during negotiations. Or, he is correct and we will be screwed in the court sytem.
Spirit pilots said 2 years ago that we wouldn't even discuss pref bidding. We are sticking with line bidding.
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
I'm still confused.
Exactly HOW will you end up in court to determine your contract? The ONLY way that's possible inside the confines of the RLA is in an 1113(c) filing in bankruptcy.
Not exactly sure where you're getting your information, but it's erroneous in the extreme...
lostplnetairman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2004
- Posts
- 203
No he complained and complained and left for United, only to get furloughed. Now he sits and tells Spirit pilots what to do on the internet.
CosmoKramer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Posts
- 65
At least you share something in common...
Shrek left for Yoonited because he lives in the mountains and he always wanted to be a U pilot. He didn't complain about Spirit. He didn't leave because of anything about Spirit. But that was a nice shot, you got that going for ya.
About United, What's the top pay and days for their widebodies? They are slightly more than 28 baby airbii you know.
Lear70
JAFFO
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Not to mention, United is operating under a bankruptcy-imposed 1113(c) contract and pay rates.
Not that their financials support it, but don't be surprised if, when they get to renegotiate their next contract, their rates snap back up about 30-40%. They might never be $300k+ a year Widebody max CA pay (or at least not in our career tracks), but they'll be well back above $200k a year for Widebody max CA pay after the next round along with work rules worthy of a Legacy/Major airline as well; bet you a C-note on it.
That said, comparing yourself to other carriers, while important for the PROFESSION as a whole, is less important than deciding if YOU can live with this contract and whether it was worth the angst of YEARS of fighting and a STRIKE to obtain. Personally, as I've said before, I'd vote NO, simply because of Scope, the loss of your overtime pay, their ability to build high-time lines that will come close to equaling out what many of you were already making, and the pay rates that aren't even CLOSE to industry average for that equipment. But I don't have to make that choice, you do.
Just make sure you understand the next steps if you DO vote NO. And they AREN'T getting parked by a PEB in all likelihood, and most ASSUREDLY do NOT result in having the NMB or a court system deciding your contract. You CAN immediately go BACK on strike if your MEC so decides after voting down a T.A. That's a FACT. I've been doing ALPA work for a long time and understand the RLA quite well, and I'm here to tell you if anyone is telling you differently than this, they're lying to your face (or deliberately exaggerating the chances of a PEB to a ridiculous extreme) as a scare tactic. You're not big enough to declare a PEB. Seriously, no offense intended, but you're not. And there is NO mechanism to force a contract from you in court unless the company files bankruptcy. Period. The end.
Best of luck...
Not that their financials support it, but don't be surprised if, when they get to renegotiate their next contract, their rates snap back up about 30-40%. They might never be $300k+ a year Widebody max CA pay (or at least not in our career tracks), but they'll be well back above $200k a year for Widebody max CA pay after the next round along with work rules worthy of a Legacy/Major airline as well; bet you a C-note on it.
That said, comparing yourself to other carriers, while important for the PROFESSION as a whole, is less important than deciding if YOU can live with this contract and whether it was worth the angst of YEARS of fighting and a STRIKE to obtain. Personally, as I've said before, I'd vote NO, simply because of Scope, the loss of your overtime pay, their ability to build high-time lines that will come close to equaling out what many of you were already making, and the pay rates that aren't even CLOSE to industry average for that equipment. But I don't have to make that choice, you do.
Just make sure you understand the next steps if you DO vote NO. And they AREN'T getting parked by a PEB in all likelihood, and most ASSUREDLY do NOT result in having the NMB or a court system deciding your contract. You CAN immediately go BACK on strike if your MEC so decides after voting down a T.A. That's a FACT. I've been doing ALPA work for a long time and understand the RLA quite well, and I'm here to tell you if anyone is telling you differently than this, they're lying to your face (or deliberately exaggerating the chances of a PEB to a ridiculous extreme) as a scare tactic. You're not big enough to declare a PEB. Seriously, no offense intended, but you're not. And there is NO mechanism to force a contract from you in court unless the company files bankruptcy. Period. The end.
Best of luck...
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C-150ETOPS
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2003
- Posts
- 499
Lear70,
You summed it up well.
I don't know where he is getting the idea of the "courts" writing the Spirit contract. If the ALPA lawyer stated that without mentioning the only way for Spirit management to get a court written contract is to go CHP 11 and get a 113C, then this ALPA lawyer needs to be nailed to the nearest wall.
I agree also that the PEB is unlikely with Spirit due to it's size. The only thing that makes it possible would be if Rahm Emanuel thinks he can use it for 15 minutes of "feel good" news to divert the attenion from 20 other negative stories about B.O. Rahm also has probably figured out that 1/2 of Spirits pax will vote for the Dems' no matter what and the other 1/2 can't even vote because of a prior Felony conviction
No Politician gives a krap about their loyal constituents, only the swing voters.
You summed it up well.
I don't know where he is getting the idea of the "courts" writing the Spirit contract. If the ALPA lawyer stated that without mentioning the only way for Spirit management to get a court written contract is to go CHP 11 and get a 113C, then this ALPA lawyer needs to be nailed to the nearest wall.
I agree also that the PEB is unlikely with Spirit due to it's size. The only thing that makes it possible would be if Rahm Emanuel thinks he can use it for 15 minutes of "feel good" news to divert the attenion from 20 other negative stories about B.O. Rahm also has probably figured out that 1/2 of Spirits pax will vote for the Dems' no matter what and the other 1/2 can't even vote because of a prior Felony conviction
No Politician gives a krap about their loyal constituents, only the swing voters.
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