Spirit or SWA

[Networ-King]

OK everyone, I need some help in making a decision. I am 36 years old, married with 3 kids, have been with Spirit for 6.5 years and I am currently flying Airbus 319 Captain (also have 737 type). I got hired by SWA. I have always wanted to work for SWA, but I am wondering if it is the best decision to leave Spirit as a Captain. Should I start over and make the jump to SWA the most stable airline out there or stay at Spirit, keep my senority and continue to fly as Captain? (I know I am very fortunate to be able to have a decision like this to make). Any helpful advice would be appreciated, this is a big decision to make. Thanks.

Why would you even bother applying and networ-King, getting the monkey suit ready to interview, study, prepare, go interview and stress for a couple of month and then finally get the call for a job at SWA and then ponder this question? Obviously you've answered your own question by starting this whole process and you were motivated enough to do a great job at the interview..... so cut bait and get your new life at your new airline started. EVERY seniority number counts. Good luck....and remember... only on that last flight to your retirement will you look back and KNOW where and when you made the right choices. Nothing is for sure in this industry. Please just become a koolaid drinking butthead like SWAFO .... I kid I kid.

 

[johnsonrod]

I wish I were in your shoes - I'd definitely go to SWA and not look back. You've won the LOTTO and a lot of people would take your SWA seat if you don't.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[bubbers44]

You have obviously already made your decision. I think you are looking for reinforcement in taking the big step. I think you have gotten that so have a wonderful career.

 

[love2flyman]

Thanks everyone.

 

[C77MD80]

SWA is growing "a Spirit" this year with growth. I'll bump up a number by you moving so I have an interest in this question, however, you will be senior to me again at SWA once I get my crack at it.

Good luck with your decision. Nothing is guaranteed, but SWA seems like a pretty safe bet.

 

[SWA/FO]

Although Southwest's employees have not felt the pain that the rest of the industry has, they may find themselves doing so in the future.

It is unfortunate, but we must ask ourself if Southwest can be competitive with payrates that exceed those at every other airline? (despite their legendary productivity) I would take an educated guess that they too will be faced with concessions in the not-to-distant future. Fuel prices are the wild card we all deal with.

NOT

Can Southwest continue to weather the storm? I'm not sure i'd be willing to bet my family's long-term financial security on it.

Frankly, i'd probably stay at Spirit. I might regret that decision in ten years. But if after going to SWA I took a paycut or was subsequently furloughed, i'd regret being out-of-work much, much more.

Can we weather the storm? YES. Furlough! you don't know much about Southwest Airlines.

 

[bubbers44]

Fuel hedgeing won't last forever for SWA but they know how to turn an airplane and make money better than anybody. I wish AA could figure that out.

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Stay put... The honeymoon over there has to end sometime. Senority is gold right now. Get hired at the beginning of the hiring boom somewhere, not the end...

 

[Phaedrus]

I have huge respect for Southwest. But I have to agree with a couple of the contributors here, in that nothing, not even SWA is a "sure thing". I read an article today while waiting for a shave and a haircut: "Delta retires 767 that employees bought". Told how in 1982 Delta was taking heat from investors because they increased employee pay, this after the first time in 36 years that they didn't post an annual profit. To help out the company a few employees got together and started a volunteer drive to buy a $30M 767 for the company. Well over %80 contributed.
My point here is that it sounds very SWA-like; family atmosphere, strong balance sheet, etc. Past performance, of course, is not indicative of future potential. It is a lesson worth noting however.

 

[Andy]

Go to Southwest. They have a very strong balance sheet and can endure quite a few stormy days. They also have a very good management team that has a very deep bench. While they could hit a bad streak, they are more likely to survive it unscathed than any other carrier out there.

And whatever you do, don't look back on this decision until the day that you retire.

 

[Delville]

Unfortunately, answering your question requires the proverbial crystal ball. The final answer to your question will be determined to a large degree by luck.

However, there are a few things to consider about SWA:

1) Even after their fuel hedges go away, they still have the lowest system costs in the industry (CASM excluding fuel). AirTran, however, is very close to surpassing them on this measure. CASM excluding fuel does include SWA's "high" labor costs. SWA's well-developed route system, utilization rates, and employee productivity allow them to have low costs.

2) There are still many opportunities for SWA to grow in the domestic market.

3) SWA still has areas in which it can improve efficiency before it turns to to its employees for concessions. For example, from what I understand, SWA taxies it's aircraft on two engines. Money can be saved by turning to a single engine taxi procedure. I'm sure the SWA employees here can pipe in with other areas for improvement.

4) SWA is a major reason why domestic fares are currently being held down. As it's fuel hedges go away, expect domestic fares to begin to rise to counteract the removal of the hedges. As SWA's fuel costs rise, SWA's revenue will also likely rise.

5) Expect a possible buyout of or attempt to weaken/incapacitate AirTran in the coming years. I have heard from several sources that Gary Kelly considers AirTran to be SWA's greatest threat. If AirTran's is removed or made irrelevant as a competitor, this could have a major impact on the LCC side of the industry.

6) SWA will likely be the launch customer for the 737 follow-on aircraft. Boeing recently announced the initiation of its effort to produce this aircraft ( http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/02/07/Navigation/177/204506/THE+737+STORY+Smoke+and+mirrors+obscure+737+and+Airbus+A320+replacement.html ) nand estimates an initial delivery date in the 2012-15 timeframe. Herb Kelleher recently made a speech to Boeing that if Boeing could produce a 737 version of the 787 that SWA would buy several hundred of them. If SWA is able to become the initial operator of this aircraft and is able to secure the first batches of production, this could effectively give them an advantage similar to the fuel hedges for a period of time since the new aircraft will burn much less fuel than the 737NG.

GOOD LUCK!!

 

[FR8dognit]

Go To Swa

 

[fngswa]

The bottom line?

Pilots that I have talked too that decided on SWA when everyone was hiring (and everyone else was making a lot more) reference the stability of the company. How are they in the good times and the bad. I don't know a lot about Spirit but how are they doing financially? They aren't bankrupt so that says something. How do they look going forward? Money, i think we make more. Benefits - we have one of the best 401K programs in the industry. Profit sharing - yes, we got it this year (and every year - haven't lost money in over thirty years). Yup, are fuel hedging is dwindling but we didn't always fuel hedge and we still made money - we find ways! Seniority? You have been hired early in the year when we are projected to hire 550. Even more retirements next year, and 10 percent growth goal every year. Growth and expansion will keep you in the 5 year upgrade range. Schedule? As an FO you will rapidly will be off reserve (within a couple of months).

Most of the people on this board know nothing about spirit but know a lot about SWA. I'm sure with a family it is tough to make a huge change, just make the right change for you and your circumstances.

Bottom line, you are in a great situation. You have a job when many people are on the streets with opportunity to fly for another great airline.

 

[onthestreet]

There are NO guarantees in life.


SWA has a enviable history, but competitive pressures being what they are...SWA will eventually have to pay rates comensurate to their competition. Effective pilot utilization can only cover just so much of the ever increasing gap between SWA's narrowbody pay and that of their competition.

If Baldanza succeeds, Spirit will have a nice little niche and you have seniority which equals QOL.

Of course, all bets are out the window if Airways (Cactus) buys Spirit as current rumors tend to indicate.

From the "buyout" standpoint alone, I'd take the job at SWA.

Either way congrats on the offer.

 

[Benhuntn]

Quote from the training center whe you show up the first day..." Welcome the last and best airline job you will ever have." My opinion: SWA is not perfect but if things go bad in the industry we will be the last one to fail.

 

[ExAF]

Spirit or SWA? Ha Ha....you make funny!

 

[Palomino]

Quote from the training center whe you show up the first day..." Welcome the last and best airline job you will ever have."

a quote borrowed from every day 1 at any major carrier

 

[Aplus9]

You have obviously already made your decision. I think you are looking for reinforcement in taking the big step. I think you have gotten that so have a wonderful career.

Ditto. Something made you apply at another airline. Go with your instinct.

 

[SWA/FO]

Except what I heard at my first day of training at Southwest..... "welcome to the only newhire pilot class in the World." (9/11 timeframe)

 

[Falconjet]

Well that wasn't exactly true either. FedEx hired 3 classes (49 pilots total) in October 2001.

FJ

PS: I still say go to SW!

 

[monkeybrains01]

You owe it to your wife and kids to provide stability. SWA is as stable as it gets. Go to SWA and don't look back. At least you got some Airbus stick time - but seriously, go to SWA!

Not meant as flame bait, I have my stuff in at SWA and I agree they are as stable as it gets as far as pax airlines are concerned...however UAL, TWA, DAL.........were as stable as it gets in thier day.

 

[:-)]

Not meant as flame bait, I have my stuff in at SWA and I agree they are as stable as it gets as far as pax airlines are concerned...however UAL, TWA, DAL.........were as stable as it gets in thier day.

But UAL, TWA and DAL were never the lean/mean/efficient operators that SWA has always been.

I don't see much comparison between legacy/high cost/full service carriers and SWA.