Spins...

[rumpletumbler]

Apparently not.

Else he wouldn't have asked you what you knew not to do, would he?

Yeah....good point. I guess I meant in the eyes of the community surrounding him....he was the good guy...I was the bad...etc.

 

[PropsForward]

The trick of intentional spins is to remain within Va during the maneuver. In the C172 aircraft this is very easy to. When the flaps are extended, you now need to recover before exceeding the flap speed.

Not real strong in the fundamentals for aerodynamics and flaps, but I believe that flaps actually reduce aileron effectiveness not rudder effectiveness. While still not an issue in the small Cessna, it is the foundation for the popular teaching of not using full flaps in a stiff crosswind. (FWIW I am a full flap landing on crosswind kind of guy, if I can't keep control of the airplane with full flaps, then it is time to go to another airport).

Lastly, I have a slight problem with a flight instructor saying "Watch This" and then doing something unexpected. This is a strong indication that you may want to find another CFI. I don't have a problem with a CFI having a spontanious teaching moment but he should had provided some instruction and a mock walk through of what he was about to do before jumping into such a maneuver.

 

[minitour]

...This is a strong indication that you may want to find another CFI...

Thanks guys for the information on the maneuver and also for the abundant advice from above. Steps have been taken to resolve that situation.

Thanks agian!

-mini

 

[cezzna]

I don't know about aerodynamics with the flaps down, but I would guess it is prohibited because you will greatly exceed flap speed in recovery. Back in the day when I was instucting, I heard a story something like this. It will happen eventually( by accident) that a stall will turn into a spin with flaps out. The result could be and was in this case that the flaps buckled, or bent under the aerodynamic load. I have no real idea but I would think in a 152 even if the flaps are out, let go of everything and it will recover. Things may bend but... I agree with the other posts, dump this instructor. Anytime you hear "watch this" without any briefing, it's bad news

 

[Doug]

Wow, I am a really new student, and if my instructor ever "hotdogged" like that I would punch him in the face when we got on the ground and find another instructor. It can be scary enough learning to fly with all the new sensations, the last thing you need is some a-hole pulling a stunt like that.

 

[avbug]

The trick of intentional spins is to remain within Va during the maneuver. In the C172 aircraft this is very easy to. When the flaps are extended, you now need to recover before exceeding the flap speed.

A spin is a stalled maneuver. If you're accelerating and gaining airspeed during the spin, you're in a graveyard spiral. Not a spin. You shouldn't be worried about overspeeding the airplane.

If you're talking about spinning out of an accelerated maneuver, you're still in a stalled state. The spin may initiate at a higher airspeed, but should actually slow and not accelerate during the spin, to include the steady state phase.

 

[cezzna]

You are right, a spin is a stalled maneuver and if done correctly. In a well rigged airplane it will stabilize and should not exceed flap speed. It has been along time but I recall after breaking the spin and then pulling out it was not possible to keep it in the white arc. I also remember trying to spin 152's which would always end up in a graveyard spiral( in other words the airspeed did not stabilize but kept increasing), it would not saty in the spin/stall condition for more than one turn. I believe that some of the airplanes have been abused for too long by overconfident, undereducated instructors doing bootleg aerobatics. I have known them and been victimized by them. I knew an instructor who would take primary students with a few hours and loop them in a 152. Too many knucleheads overspeeding and overstressing airplanes for too many years. Then you end up with planes that always drop the same wing in a stall or wont properly spin. Once again dump this dude.

 

[Fly_Chick]

A side question regarding spins. We had a student at the flight school who was told his CFI could not demonstrate spins in the C152 unless there were parachutes aboard. The student has his private, about 500+ hours, not working on his CFI rating, just building some time.

Are parachutes a requirement for a spin demonstration without training towards a CFI certificate?

 

[rumpletumbler]

A side question regarding spins. We had a studentatthe flight school who was told his CFI could not demonstrate spinsinthe C152 unless there were parachutes aboard. The student hashisprivate, about 500+ hours, not working on his CFI rating, justbuildingsome time.

Are parachutes a requirement for a spin demonstration without training towards a CFI certificate?

No, they are not required.

 

[cougar6903]

A side question regarding spins. We had a student at the flight school who was told his CFI could not demonstrate spins in the C152 unless there were parachutes aboard. The student has his private, about 500+ hours, not working on his CFI rating, just building some time.

Are parachutes a requirement for a spin demonstration without training towards a CFI certificate?

FAR 91.303 defines aerobatic flight thusly: an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight. Note that aerobatic flight is not demarcated by a specific pitch attitude or bank angle. (Aerobatic flight is often mistakenly thought to occur only when an aircraft exceeds 30 degrees of pitch or 60 degrees of bank relative to the horizon. This 30/60 rule, which appears under FAR 91.307 (c), merely specifies the conditions under which parachutes must be worn by the occupants of an aircraft.) In the classical sense, the term aerobatics includes spinning, looping, and rolling an aircraft through 360 degrees of yaw, pitch, and roll. The only time parachutes are not required is during spins for a CFI rating.