Speed below 10K

sidseal

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Had this question asked at recent interview: What is max speed below 10K? Obviously, I told him "250." Then he said, "Can ATC increase that or can you ask to increase that?" I told him no because if you read 91.117 (a) it says "unless otherwise authorized by the ADMINISTRATOR...no faster than 250 below 10. If you look at 91.117 (b) it says "unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC...no faster than 200 within 4 and 2500 of C & D airspace. And, as we all know, it says that (b) does not apply to operations within class B airspace and that within class B, comply with (a).

So, since 91.117(a) says ADMINISTRATOR and 91.117(b) says ATC, I stuck with my answer of "no". Any comments, etc.... I haven't heard if I got the job or not.
 

Joe Jet Pilot

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My Answer

I would agree with you, but I might have added 2 additional thoughts on the subject. First Houston Class B airspace is a test for allowing more than 250 inside of the Class B airspace. This is several years old and published. The second thought is that the 250 knot rule only applies to if operating less than 12 NM from the coast. So if you were 20 miles out over the water and you wanted to do say 300 knots, go for it!

Here is 91.1 for your reference:

§ 91.1 Applicability.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and §§ 91.701 and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft (other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States, including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.

(b) Each person operating an aircraft in the airspace overlying the waters between 3 and 12 nautical miles from the coast of the United States shall comply with §§ 91.1 through 91.21; §§ 91.101 through 91.143; §§ 91.151 through 91.159; §§ 91.167 through 91.193; § 91.203; § 91.205; §§ 91.209 through 91.217; § 91.221; §§ 91.303 through 91.319; § 91.323; § 91.605; § 91.609; §§ 91.703 through 91.715; and 91.903.

(c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, unless otherwise specified.

[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34292, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-257, 64 FR 1079, Jan. 7, 1999]
 

sidseal

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His eyes would have probably glazed over if I said all that! But, would have been nice to throw that into my answer. I completely forgort about that test in Houston. Thanks.
 

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Shem Malmquist
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Don't forget about 91.117(d), which applies to many of the larger heavy jets, MD-11s, 747s, etc.
 

Sunken_Lunken

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Just to cloud things a little, paragraph (d) from 91.117 is copied below:

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

From what I have been told by others, a fully loaded 747 (sorry, don't remember the model the person gave as an example) can require higher than 250kts to clean up on departure. I have been told that in such cases, the crew notifies ATC of their needs, and they can often get a higher speed. I think the argument is that the crew is not required to leave the flaps and slats out just to stay inside the speed restriction.

Anyway, good luck with your interviewing. Hope it turns out well for you.
 

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Shem Malmquist
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The MD-11 actually requires the fastest speed of any of them currently, 289kts IAS at max weight. Contrary to what you stated, there is NO requirement for us to ask for the higher speed unless ATC has specifically assigned 250 kts, in which case we just notify them that we need a higher speed due operational requirements.

If I get the feeling we're being fit in behind somebody, I will usually give ATC a courtesy call to advise them of our higher climb speed, but that is not required. I do the same for the approach environment if it appears they're trying to fit us behind a smaller aircraft, such as a 737 -- if our min speed on final is 167kts (or more) IAS it can help them in their planning before they turn us on final behind somebody slower.
 

Speedtree

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administrator?

If ATC are FAA employees are they therefore part of the "administrator"?

What is the definition of the Administrator?

Are the FAA employees at the FSDO any different than ATC?



Houston indeed routinely allows +250kts. Unfortunately I don't fly an aircraft where it matters. I assume this is an authorization by the administrator with the parameters of discretion given to the local Houston ATC in which case the answer to your interview question would be yes but only under certain cases. Houston can allow it because they are authorized to do so. You could ask another controller somewhere else and if he is not authorized he should say no.
 

The FNG

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Today was Jane Garvey's last day as Administrator. Marion Blakey is awating confirmation but until then an interim Administrator will be running the show.

91.117(a) gives authority to the Administrator for speed >250 below 10,000'. Jane herself doesn't have to sign every waiver. This authority can be delegated, as in the Houston Class B example, but it is very specific and documented in writing.

91.117(b) gives authority to ATC for speed >200 within 2,500' above and 4nm of primary airport in Class C or D. This means ATC can verbally authorize speed greater than 200 but not more than 250. Big difference here.
 
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Rich Man

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Administrator

Administrator as defined in FAR part 1.1 says:

Administrator means The Federal Aviation Administrator or any person to whom he has delegated his authority in the matter concerned.

Therefore, any person carrying out the authority of "The Administrator" is in fact and administrator,as defined.

ie:
ATC is the administrator when it comes to traffic separation
a DPE is an administrator when it comes to evaluating pilots
a ramp inspector is the administartor for ramp inspections and so on, whom ever carries the authority delegated by the administrator, is The Administartor, however, of cousre, there is one (1) perosn who is designated as "The Administartor" and this guy or gal is who authorizes everybody else to thier matters concerned!


I hope I made it clear, if not, fire away!


Rich!


P.S. in your interview you could have said yes, hope you get the job!
:)
 

Timebuilder

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>>Therefore, any person carrying out the authority of "The Administrator" is in fact and administrator,as defined.

Since only specific functions are granted or assigned by the Administrator, those delegates take only the authority granted to them to execute their duties as representatives. The legal identitiy remains with only one person, and all others are only delegates. The full authority of Administrator remains in the office, as evidenced by letters signed with the phrase "for the Administrator" at the bottom.
 
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