Southwest's new plan to screw Airtran pilots

[737tanker]

So tell me about your FULL APD authority at SWA to give INITIAL type ratings on the 737. I was told there was no such program, but tell us about it.

I'll tell you what SWA did for the Morris guys who didn't have the type. When they upgraded they went through the training that everyone else went through. However for their checkride they had a SWA Check Airman and a FAA Inspector. During the oral they got questions from both. For the checkride the FAA Inspector observed while the Check Airman ran the box. The only additional maneuver that had to be done that wasn't part of the SWA normal checkride was a circling approach. From what FltOps and SWAPA has said what was done for the Morris pilots will also be done for the AirTran pilots. but who knows by the time the non-typed AirTran pilots start to upgrade SWA may have some Check Airmen who have been qualified as Designated Examiners in the 737. In any case the AirTran pilots who need the type will not have to pay for it!

 

[Lear70]

Your the idiot that said you you only applied to UAL,CAL, DAL when SWA bought Morris( which was late 1993)

By they way every Airtran pilot I have meet says your an idiot.

You just keep trying to install fear in them that SWA will make pay for there training.

You went and edited your post because you know everyone would have called you out on your BS.

I am done, you can go back to what you do best.

Oh my reading-challenged friend... Go back to where the General quoted me and read it again. Slowly for comprehension this time.

I didn't say I was applying to the legacies when Swa bought Morris. I said I didn't know what happened then because I wasn't paying any attention to Swa until well into 2001, focusing on the Legacies I wanted to work at.

But you go right ahead trying to paint me into a box. I'm sure on some level you're probably like Charlie Sheen, thinking "WINNING!" lol

 

[Lear70]

I'll tell you what SWA did for the Morris guys who didn't have the type. When they upgraded they went through the training that everyone else went through. However for their checkride they had a SWA Check Airman and a FAA Inspector. During the oral they got questions from both. For the checkride the FAA Inspector observed while the Check Airman ran the box. The only additional maneuver that had to be done that wasn't part of the SWA normal checkride was a circling approach. From what FltOps and SWAPA has said what was done for the Morris pilots will also be done for the AirTran pilots. but who knows by the time the non-typed AirTran pilots start to upgrade SWA may have some Check Airmen who have been qualified as Designated Examiners in the 737. In any case the AirTran pilots who need the type will not have to pay for it!

Thanks for the factual information. Didn't think they had an APD program for initial types in place, much to Slaquer's dismay.

That said, as I mentioned before, so far Southwest has put everything but this into a formal desk letter to AAI ALPA, and while I have no reason to think this will be any different, the truth is that Swa management has changed more than one thing from what they told us during negotiations, so I never say anything is set in stone anymore.

 

[PCL_128]

Not sure why you and PCL. hate SWA so much .

Lear hating SWA? Hardly. I've known him for a while, and I don't think I ever heard him say anything bad about SWA. Even now, after the screw-job of the century, he still gives you and your company way too much of a pass.

As for me, you can read canyonblue's quote to see how I used to feel. I didn't "hate" SWA before this mess. I never wanted to work there, that's certainly true. But I never wanted to work for FedEx, either, and I certainly don't hate them. But after the way we've been treated by both SWAPA and management, let's just say that my opinions won't be stated because the language censor on here would overload.

 

[dicko]

I have not meet that I do like not like.

I thought this line was worth quoting.

 

[slaquer5]

Oh my reading-challenged friend... Go back to where the General quoted me and read it again. Slowly for comprehension this time.

I didn't say I was applying to the legacies when Swa bought Morris. I said I didn't know what happened then because I wasn't paying any attention to Swa until well into 2001, focusing on the Legacies I wanted to work at.

But you go right ahead trying to paint me into a box. I'm sure on some level you're probably like Charlie Sheen, thinking "WINNING!" lol

typical narcissistic. You went back and changed you post.

Hence is says edited on the bottom of your post.

Keep doing what you do best.

 

[Lear70]

typical narcissistic. You went back and changed you post.

Hence is says edited on the bottom of your post.

Keep doing what you do best.

You are truly an idiot. The General quoted me before I could edit. His quote of me IS my original, unedited post, genius. That's why there are time stamps on every post AND the edits.

Not to mention you can only edit your post for an hour, then it's permanently locked.

Frakking Mensa scholars you guys got over there. *snerk* just admit you were wrong. About everything. And salvage a little dignity.

 

[slaquer5]

You are truly an idiot. The General quoted me before I could edit. His quote of me IS my original, unedited post, genius. That's why there are time stamps on every post AND the edits.

Not to mention you can only edit your post for an hour, then it's permanently locked.

Frakking Mensa scholars you guys got over there. *snerk* just admit you were wrong. About everything. And salvage a little dignity.

Show how far you will go to lye


You truly are sick .

Go on doing what you do best. ( I just hope most if not all see your spin and BS you try and put out)

PS I am sure I am an idiot , but I bet I make over 3x what you do.
That is at flying under 550 hrs for the year for me

I would say better lucky than good, but I am talking to someone that has been fired multiple times.

 

[PFTEXPJET]

Jim
You people need to develop a sense of humor.

I agree with Jim, that was funny.

 

[Lear70]

Show how far you will go to lye


You truly are sick .

Go on doing what you do best. ( I just hope most if not all see your spin and BS you try and put out)

PS I am sure I am an idiot , but I bet I make over 3x what you do.
That is at flying under 550 hrs for the year for me

Because its ok to be completely vapid as long as you make more money. That makes sense... [rolleyes]

I would say better lucky than good, but I am talking to someone that has been fired multiple times.

Wrong again my oft-inaccurate friend. You're on a roll for wrong answers the last 24 hours. WINNING! Lmao

 

[General Lee]

Lear,

Slaquer is trying to jump on anything he thinks could make you mad, primarily because he knows, along with most Corndogs on here, that your opinions are dead on concerning your group's treatment, and current feelings. Some people don't care, but those mistreatments and bad feelings can linger for a long time, which could delay something important, unity between the pilot groups as one group.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWAdude]

Lear,

Slaquer is trying to jump on anything he thinks could make you mad, primarily because he knows, along with most Corndogs on here, that your opinions are dead on concerning your group's treatment, and current feelings. Some people don't care, but those mistreatments and bad feelings can linger for a long time, which could delay something important, unity between the pilot groups as one group.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Mistreatment? LOL!!

Does Lear agree with "Five Zeros" that somehow they are being mistreated?

They agreed by over 83% to be "mistreated". And if Lear thinks he is being "mistreated". I certainly wouldn't work for a company that mistreated me. Nor should he.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Show how far you will go to lye


You truly are sick .

Go on doing what you do best. ( I just hope most if not all see your spin and BS you try and put out)

PS I am sure I am an idiot , but I bet I make over 3x what you do.
That is at flying under 550 hrs for the year for me

I would say better lucky than good, but I am talking to someone that has been fired multiple times.

Yikes.

Reading your posts it is apparent that SWA doesn't require an ENGLISH PROFICIENT endorsement on your license...

 

[General Lee]

Mistreatment? LOL!!

Does Lear agree with "Five Zeros" that somehow they are being mistreated?

They agreed by over 83% to be "mistreated". And if Lear thinks he is being "mistreated". I certainly wouldn't work for a company that mistreated me. Nor should he.

Yeah, those 83% sure voted with a smile.....right? Sure they did.....You can't see it, can you? You are OBLIVIOUS. Another idiot... And a great statement. "I wouldn't work for a company that mistreated me...." So, everybody should quit during a BK? You think so. Wow, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about or typing. Please don't drive or fly in the next hour, you are obviously drunk off your butt.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWAdude]

Yeah, those 83% sure voted with a smile.....right? Sure they did.....You can't see it, can you? You are OBLIVIOUS. Another idiot... And a great statement. "I wouldn't work for a company that mistreated me...." So, everybody should quit during a BK? You think so. Wow, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about or typing. Please don't drive or fly in the next hour, you are obviously drunk off your butt.



Bye Bye---General Lee

No, you are the only idiot on this board working for an airline whose pilots accept non union labor outsourcing their jobs bringing down the entire profession. Be proud idiot. How do you get a medical every year with such brain damage? Fall off your big wheel not too long ago? These concepts are so basic a retard could understand not only that there isn't any mistreatment (what a freakin joke) or that some transitions take time to complete. Only Delta accepts b-scales and outsourced non union labor. A retarded hypocrite is above you.

They could have gone to arbitration. That was also agreed upon by both unions. OH! I know. There was a gun to their head otherwise. Another freakin stupid idea.

ABSOLUTELY proud to be a CORNDOG. Call me anything you want. The 15,000 dollar monthly checks still passes.

Peace out Five Zeros.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

Slaquer is trying to jump on anything he thinks could make you mad,

Have to admit, his first attack after I posted p*ssed me off, but now that he's gone down the road of complete idiocy, I'm now simply amused every time he posts, so no big deal.

primarily because he knows, along with most Corndogs on here, that your opinions are dead on concerning your group's treatment, and current feelings.

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not; never said I spoke for the entire pilot group, but there's a large core of people here who are less than impressed with how the AirTran pilots have been treated in all this. Beyond that, each pilot can determine for themselves just how upset they are and how long it takes them to move on.

Mistreatment? LOL!!

Does Lear agree with "Five Zeros" that somehow they are being mistreated?

They agreed by over 83% to be "mistreated". And if Lear thinks he is being "mistreated". I certainly wouldn't work for a company that mistreated me. Nor should he.

I'm not going down this road of discussion. It's a dead horse and it's been thoroughly beaten to death, but you'd have to be blind to think that most of us are happy with how it unfolded or voted for it un-coerced.

Don't confuse "choosing the avenue that keeps you employed" and "resignation to the inevitable" as "happy acceptance". Beyond that, there's no reason to get into it further, just not worth my time or effort.

 

[SWAdude]

Have to admit, his first attack after I posted p*ssed me off, but now that he's gone down the road of complete idiocy, I'm now simply amused every time he posts, so no big deal.


Maybe I am, maybe I'm not; never said I spoke for the entire pilot group, but there's a large core of people here who are less than impressed with how the AirTran pilots have been treated in all this. Beyond that, each pilot can determine for themselves just how upset they are and how long it takes them to move on.


I'm not going down this road of discussion. It's a dead horse and it's been thoroughly beaten to death, but you'd have to be blind to think that most of us are happy with how it unfolded or voted for it un-coerced.

Don't confuse "choosing the avenue that keeps you employed" and "resignation to the inevitable" as "happy acceptance". Beyond that, there's no reason to get into it further, just not worth my time or effort.

I have never ONCE said you got a great deal. You got stuck with a bad situation that your Former BOD decided to take. And a deal our BOD thought good for their shareholders. I didn't want this either. Although not welcomed, this has been a fair process. Your side had legitimate concerns about choosing the deal on the table or arbitration. In a landslide the AT pilots choose against arbitration.

Is this why you feel mistreated? If not, then what has SWA or our pilots done to you to feel mistreated? Five Zeros is talking for you. And living in his shadow for only a moment casts you in a poor light.

 

[27 driver]

I have never ONCE said you got a great deal. You got stuck with a bad situation that your Former BOD decided to take. And a deal our BOD thought good for their shareholders. I didn't want this either. Although not welcomed, this has been a fair process. Your side had legitimate concerns about choosing the deal on the table or arbitration. In a landslide the AT pilots choose against arbitration.

Is this why you feel mistreated? If not, then what has SWA or our pilots done to you to feel mistreated? Five Zeros is talking for you. And living in his shadow for only a moment casts you in a poor light.

No, we chose between this deal and non-integration/no job. Big difference. I guess from your perfect little bubble you can't see that. I only hope your job is threatened one day so you can see another perspective. I hope you have to chose between a bad deal and no job when you have a wife and kids counting your salary. You may have been threatened with arbitration(fairness) but we were threatened with unemployment.

 

[SWAdude]

No, we chose between this deal and non-integration/no job. Big difference. I guess from your perfect little bubble you can't see that. I only hope your job is threatened one day so you can see another perspective. I hope you have to chose between a bad deal and no job when you have a wife and kids counting your salary. You may have been threatened with arbitration(fairness) but we were threatened with unemployment.

LOL!!

Yeah you know me real well now don't you. I am on my 7th airline. Aaaaand not because I wanted it that way.

I wish no ill will on you. Unlike you do others.

Your MEC is the culprit here. Not me or anyone else. There was discourse about SWA's concerns about the integrated list if it went to arbitration. But it was a concern for time and how that can change the dynamics for any airline. 9/11 ring a bell?

17% of your guys didn't vote for unemployment. Sounds like you have your own bubble to live in.

Some of you are really going to hate it here. And I would seriously be looking at another airline to fly for or another line of work. Your company (AT) sold you out.

 

[Lear70]

Is this why you feel mistreated? If not, then what has SWA or our pilots done to you to feel mistreated? Five Zeros is talking for you. And living in his shadow for only a moment casts you in a poor light.

First, I don't live in ANYONE'S shadow. I create my own. The fact that we happen to agree from time to time is nothing more than shared perspective.

Secondly, it wasn't our MEC that put us in this position, it was Gary Kelly the day he wrote the letter that threatened non-integration and the slow spin-down of AirTran and our careers in violation of the Process Agreement. It's just that simple.

You may not see it. You may not understand it. I no longer care to debate it if you don't but you're being either naive or disingenuous to believe there's not a large contingent of us who don't think similarly.

And no one is going anywhere else unless it's a Legacy and none of them are hiring. Even when they do start hiring, many won't be able to even break even going elsewhere because of our ages. You're simply stuck with us. One big happy dysfunctional family.