Southwest to King County Int'l Airport (Outside SEA)

[Yank McCobb]

It's just a game to see who blinks first. History has shown it won't be SWA, but you never know. Although I have doubts, real doubts, if this move will happen.

 

[Rudeawakenings]

Southwest just doesn't understand the culture of the Northwest and why Herb's "we're going to take the people who ride the bus and put them on an airplane" mentality will never work here. It is called loyalty. A few years back they tried to go head to head with Alaska and got stomped. Their familiar "Sam Walton" bullying techniques won't work in a city that doesn't need them or want them. Especially when, "For the same price, you just get more" with the Last Great Airline and Horizontal.

 

[Spooky 1]

Disaster in the making

Moving out of SEA-TAC to BFI is about as smart as leaving DTW for YIP.

The GOOD NEWS is there will be more SEA-TAC gates for other airlines.

The BAD NEWS is that:
-- the BFI facilities are not even close to being as nice as SEA-TAC.
--the ramp is cramped, leaving marginal room for expansion
--BFI approaches will be delayed until there's a gap in the SEA-TAC arrivals (S ops)
--there's nowhere near the same parking facilities as SEA-TAC
--the terminal doesn't have anything close to SEA-TAC in amenities (food, shops, etc...)
--don't count on any passengers connecting from International flights
--you still have to drive on I-5 to get there
--some passengers will show up at SEA-TAC instead of BFI
--SW will have to pay a heafty amount to get back into SEA-TAC, with fewer gates, once this experiment fails

Your right on the mark. To have any major airline operating as many as 40 flights a day, or even half that would be a f*^king disaster in the making at KBFI. The controllers there have a hard enough time working the existing traffic and the blend of GA with the increased hi-performance traffic would only worsen things. For any aircraft to get from the terminal area to the end of either 13R or 31L would require crossing the shorter runway with all the delays and hazards that go with it. On a busy day you can have a 20+ minute delay just to cross the runways so as to get access to 13R.

The infrastucture in and around the airport will not support the increased auto traffic without major modifications (tax $$$$). King County is one of the most screwed up major metropoliton areas in the US. Lets hope SWA is just using this as a ploy to beat up on SEATAC officials as any movement to KBFI would just be another case of some politician lining his pockets at the expense of the community that he/she is supposed to serve. SWA stay put in KSEA where you can do just fine.

 

[320AV8R]

It's just a game to see who blinks first. History has shown it won't be SWA, but you never know. Although I have doubts, real doubts, if this move will happen.

Yank-

I don't think it will happen either, however stranger things have happened; (Michael Jackson is a free man......errrrr.....woman......uuuuuuuh....)

It's unlikely that SEA-TAC will give them a break on any fees. If they did, every other airline would want the same treatment.

They're either gonna suck it up and pay SEA-TAC, or hold their ground and fly out of BFI, which makes Port Au Prince look good.

320AV8R

 

[mdf]

Southwest just doesn't understand the culture of the Northwest and why Herb's "we're going to take the people who ride the bus and put them on an airplane" mentality will never work here. It is called loyalty. A few years back they tried to go head to head with Alaska and got stomped. Their familiar "Sam Walton" bullying techniques won't work in a city that doesn't need them or want them. Especially when, "For the same price, you just get more" with the Last Great Airline and Horizontal.

Loyalty in the Northwest? I guess Alaska mgt. didn't get that memo right before they canned the rampers, and hired the cheaper guys. So much for "Sam Walton".

 

[furloughfodder]

The "WalMart" thing sure is true about Seattle. There is not ONE SINGLE WalMart in Seattle. Gotta love it!

I can hear the collective *GASP* of the Midwesterners now....

 

[flx757]

No, but there is one in Renton, Federal Way, Auburn, Covington, Puyallup, Lynnwood and other locations in the Greater Seattle/Puget Sound area. Maybe not in the city limits of "Seattle", but plenty in King Co and surrounding areas.

 

[OrcasC180]

No, but there is one in Renton, Federal Way, Auburn, Covington, Puyallup, Lynnwood and other locations in the Greater Seattle/Puget Sound area. Maybe not in the city limits of "Seattle", but plenty in King Co and surrounding areas.

Don't forget Kent -- there's just got to be a WalMart in Kent.

-DJ

 

[OrcasC180]

For any aircraft to get from the terminal area to the end of either 13R or 31L would require crossing the shorter runway with all the delays and hazards that go with it. On a busy day you can have a 20+ minute delay just to cross the runways so as to get access to 13R.

Hmm? Taxiway Alpha goes to both ends of 13R/31L without crossing the short runway (when they don't have part of 13R/31L closed for construction). I fly in and out of BFI frequently and the I've only seen 20 minutes delays twice -- once after the American League Championship Series game against the Yankees and once after the Concorde flew in to the museum there. Neither of those are likely to happen again anytime in the foreseeable future.

The infrastucture in and around the airport will not support the increased auto traffic without major modifications (tax $$$$).

I think the parking situation at BFI is likely the largest obstacle to this actually happening. The lot there is tiny and there isn't really anyplace to add more parking around the terminal.

-DJ

 

[Paul R. Smith]

The re-furbished terminal at BFI might support SWA. Right now only Kennmore and Heli-Jet are in this terminal. Ramp space could be an issue though. BFI would be happy to have SWA, just like they are with UPS. This would give the county a good reason to expand BFI-probably into Georgetown, to accomodate more jet traffic. I am all for it.

Where could That airport grow to?
It seems quite a snug fit already.

I guess they could turn all that a/c parking into ramp area and terminal but the way it stands now it seems kinda tight, but It would be cool to see scheduled service flying in and out. A really good advertisement airport as well...Very visual to the I-5 commuters. Who knows?

 

[SWA/FO]

When did Alaska kick our ass? We never flew into LGB? Where did this take place?

If any airline could make BFI work -Southwest could. We built our own terminal in ISP, thats right we built the terminal in ISP....its ours baby!!! Just like the one we will build in BFI.

 

[chase]

SWA/FO,

I'm not 100% sure of the following so I'm asking for others smarter than I to comment who may know. The terminal at Islip was built by SWA but I believe it is actually deeded back to the city or other governing body & SWA leases back the space for only a nominal fee. Concessions are another issue, SWA gets a cut of those dollars. I can't recall all of the details but believe "ownership" isn't technically SWA's but the agreement reached between SWA & others gives SWA great leverage without the headaches of managing an airport terminal/gate area.

 

[Buckaroo]

When did Alaska kick our ass? We never flew into LGB? Where did this take place?

If any airline could make BFI work -Southwest could. We built our own terminal in ISP, thats right we built the terminal in ISP....its ours baby!!! Just like the one we will build in BFI.

That's right, we're gonna come into BFI and kick some major butt!!!!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Southwest and other airlines have made no secret of their unhappiness with rising fees at Sea-Tac, which is run by the Port of Seattle. To pay for the third runway, new terminal and other improvements, the airlines' cost to use the airport has been projected to rise from about $4 a passenger in the mid-1990s to about $23 each in 2009. That, airlines say, makes Sea-Tac one of the most expensive airports in the country.

Airlines will be responsible for about half of the billion dollars it is costing to build the airport's third runway — more than double what they originally anticipated.

But Bob Edwards, president of the Port Commission, said airlines were part of a decision 10 years ago to expand Sea-Tac rather than open another airport or send traffic to other airports.

Were airlines to pull out now, he said, costs for Sea-Tac's remaining passengers would rise, and the overall air transportation system would be less efficient. For example, if federal security personnel had to deploy more resources to Boeing Field, that could mean more bottlenecks for Sea-Tac passengers, he said.

Here you go, another example of the supplier (airport authorities)trying to dictate to their customers (airlines). More than one airline is unhappy with a decision to spend big bucks and increased fees. Southwest is the only one prepared to deal with these bully tactics.

A SEATAC bureaucrat claims the airlines affected were 'part of the decision' and shouldn't go back on the deal. The only reason the airlines were part of the deal is because they were asked their opinion THEN IGNORED. And, oh no, pulling out now will hurt the Seattle Tacoma economy! Efficiency will be degraded! The sky is falling! Next time listen to your customers, bucko.

This is just like the Wright Amendment debate.

 

[furloughfodder]

No, but there is one in Renton, Federal Way, Auburn, Covington, Puyallup, Lynnwood and other locations in the Greater Seattle/Puget Sound area. Maybe not in the city limits of "Seattle", but plenty in King Co and surrounding areas.

Like I said.......No Walmart in Seattle......Ever.....

--the terminal doesn't have anything close to SEA-TAC in amenities (food, shops, etc...)

Amenities????? Are you kidding me? Did you forget what type of passengers ride Southwest? They wouldn't know an amenity if it walked up and bit them on the arse.

 

[Yank McCobb]

No Walmart is Seattle....Ever...means exactly WHAT to this debate? Absolutely nothing. As pointed out, there are many Walmarts in King County and the cities surrounding "Seattle". The economic and population base of these areas are just as profound as that of "Seattle". The majority of people who would use BFI should SWA operate there would come from somewhere other than "Seattle".

If the "Midwesterners" are GASPing, it is about the absurdity of your argument. In fact, they are probably laughing, assuming they care at all. Over a dozen Walmarts in the Seattle area alone. Yeah, no Walmarts in the Northwest. He!!, no Walmarts in Seattle. Right.

Go find another issue to chest thump about.

 

[canyonblue]

Did you forget what type of passengers ride Southwest?

Passengers are passengers, I'd fly a mountain goat if it paid for the ride. The guys at the Cargo Carriers fly brown square boxes and they make more than you, I don't think they care what is in the back of their planes. Enlighten me on where you work and the high quality of your passengers, somehow I don't expect you will respond.

 

[SirFlyALot]

I think flying out of BFI is a great idea. However, I see it potentially being very expensive for SWA to implement. For those of you who have never been to BFI, it is in a very congested area with very little in the way of street access especially on the non-Boeing side. Even if SWA put the terminal on the Boeing side, it would require A LOT of modifications to roads, exits, and access points. I occasionally visit the pilot supply store at BFI. However, I dread going there because it is a major hassle to reach. I'm sure making the required improvements is doable for SWA and they may end up getting government assistance with the effort, but I don't see it being cheap.

There are other airports in the Seattle area that might work better for SWA. There is Renton airport. This is where 737's are put together. It is almost as close to Seattle as BFI. However, it also would require major changes to streets in the area and would have to deal with the political problems of trying to increase jet traffic over the politically very powerful Mercer Island. Then there is Paine Field up in Everett. This is where 747's, 777's and some others are assembled and is where I thought SWA would end up going. However, it is much further from Seattle than either BFI, SEA, or Renton. I'm not as familiar with the layout of the area, but my guess is that it would be easier and less expensive to make the required changes there.

 

[furloughfodder]

Passengers are passengers, I'd fly a mountain goat if it paid for the ride. The guys at the Cargo Carriers fly brown square boxes and they make more than you, I don't think they care what is in the back of their planes. Enlighten me on where you work and the high quality of your passengers, somehow I don't expect you will respond.

I'll give you a hint. I fly brown square boxes.

 

[OrcasC180]

Then there is Paine Field up in Everett. This is where 747's, 777's and some others are assembled and is where I thought SWA would end up going. However, it is much further from Seattle than either BFI, SEA, or Renton. I'm not as familiar with the layout of the area, but my guess is that it would be easier and less expensive to make the required changes there.

Paine Field (KPAE) makes much more sense to me than BFI. The fact that it's north of Seattle will make it attractive to many people that live in the Northend and don't like to have to drive I-5 through Seattle to get to SeaTac. Paine Field also has good freeway access via highway 526 which goes to the Boeing plant. There is a good deal of open space between the Boeing plant and the new control tower that could possbly be used for ramp space and terminal. One drawback is that PAE is in a bit of a convergence zone and, in my experience, has more low IFR days than BFI or SEA.

Just my $.02 as a frequent airline passenger and someone that keeps an airport car at KPAE.

-DJ