Southwest Plans Mexico Codeshare

[Whataburger]

Do you honestly believe no one has heard this before? Or is WN too good to be drug thru the mud?

Esprit

I'll back up to this post. When I said I dont want to air dirty laundry on this website I was referring to PERSONAL dirty laundry regarding another person's post on this website regarding firings of pilots.
I don't give two sh!ts if you badmouth SWA. I was referring to discussing pilots' personal situations.

 

[Whataburger]

Why not...

You need to step away from the KoolAid pitcher and take off your rose colored glasses and see this for what it is.

I take advice from friends and my parents and my spouse. So therefore, you can go ******************** yourself. Good day.

 

[BVT94]

Whataburger,

If these codeshares go thru, we'll still be flyin' together and drinking beer at the Karolinka after trips in 10 years. Fun for me, not so good for you. :beer: We should be the ones flying into Toluca, Vancouver, and Toronto dropping off our connecting pax. I don't expect to go to all of their destinations in Canada and Mexico overnight, but at least get some of the growth from these arrangements. We're going to see our rampers loading Westjet and Volaris airplanes in our biggest cities..not good. With the way the codeshare language is, pax could use Southwest.com to buy a ticket and never touch one of our airplanes, hence zero growth. Volaris is planning their launch into the US using our route network. We will most likely never operate these flights. Why would we? It will be a lot cheaper for Volaris to operate them. This is a major outsourcing of labor and will leave you in the right seat for years to come.

 

[B727Driver]

Until Volaris gets their operating certificate pulled or goes BK like Aero California, Azteca, Taesa....the list goes on. God forbid Volaris dumps one. Sometimes it is wrong to pay too little, I hope you are listening GK.
SWA pilots should be doing Intl ops, period.

 

[The Prussian]

FWIW...(admittedly my opinion isn't worth a lot)...I tend to side with Whataburger, and trust management. To automatically assume that our management is like all other managements, whose express goal is to outsource our livelihoods, is to automatically cave in on our cooperative spirit and to become just like all the other airlines in mindset. Who then first betrays the trust?
I prefer to assume that most pilots who are hired here, believe that there is something worth working for here, that has been lost at most, if not all the other airlines...a shared interest (management/employee) in producing a great product through hard work, which benefits us all through a more secure livelihood, pay and benefits, profit sharing and self esteem.

That being said, there's always a time and place to go into the "distrust" mode, if and when management demonstrates that they aren't to be trusted. I feel that our management is all too well aware of the dangers of losing the trust of it's employees, and knows that once that trust has been violated, it would be impossible to retrieve.

 

[waitin]

I posted this on the other SWA thread...

Having flown a bit in Mexico, I think we need to keep in mind that those stops wouldn't all fit into the present SWA business model. There are not many places were you will get a 30 min or less turn. Things just don't happen that way.
Don't yell Philly, because alot of times you do get a decent turn there (and sometimes you don't), but I don't see ANY short turns in Cabo, Mazatlan, etc...
How will that fit?

No flame, just something to keep in mind.

 

[shagadelic]

Waitin, it's not all the little stops we're talking about. GK doesn't want us to do ANY of the cross border flying. North or South. That is clearly unsatisfactory. Judging by what is being said on the SWAPA forum, I wouldn't be surprised if we are about to ramp up the rhetoric considerably and take them to the mat over this.

 

[waitin]

All I'm saying is that we need a lot more info about intl destinations. How much customer base is there...vacation travel only...etc, etc. Just because it is an intl dest does not mean it will make the company money.
We will make money off of codesharing...why not develop MSP, start other CONUS destinations (SE, FL panhandle) while we examine intl.
Intl dests will have to fit into the SWA business plan, just like CONUS dests, or we benefit more from drawing codeshare profits.
Not saying we should never fly intl, but there is a lot of $ left to be made in the CONUS, and I think it is "easier pickings."
Sorry, gotta go fly...

 

[instructordude]

I have to agree with Whataburger also. Codeshare is a good cash cow for you guys.

Plus if it goes good then Southwest can probably look into RJ's filling its smaller cities like LBB, RSW, or even ONT to name a few. It will save money for the company. I'm suprised Southwest hasn't worked out a deal with Riddle to start a Southwest training academey. The future looks bright!

 

[Whataburger]

Whataburger,

If these codeshares go thru, we'll still be flyin' together and drinking beer at the Karolinka after trips in 10 years. Fun for me, not so good for you. :beer: .

Actually sounds pretty nice after flying with my last Captain. Okocim anyone?

Truthfully though everyone here expected 4yr upgrades, guaranteed holidays off, 21 day off lines.

If anyone expects anything to stay the same in aviation, they are fools or have no prior 121 experience. If you want guaranteed weekends off - teach school. If you want $250,000/year - start a business. If you want 21 days off - good luck. If you want an aviation job that sucks the least, come to SWA.

This path we take will be interesting, but if we make mgmt our enemy or think Carl is the Messiah, we are the fools. How did it work for UAL when they got pilots on the board?

We definetly do not need to farm out all our future endeavors. However, I'm not against letting mgmt explore options. Does anyone think that mgmt's M.O. is to piss-off all of us? They know we control the fuel and effenciency. They would be fools to screw with 6000 pilots that fly 950 hrs a year.

PS. No I'm not mgmt. Actually have served multiple terms on an ALPA MEC and attended BODs.

 

[Aubie]

Waitin-

PHL doesn't work for 30-minute turns either but we went there. Our model has been slowly changing the last several years. If someone can fly into a Mexican city and make money doing it then we can too.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

I agree with Whataburger. You all should trust us in management.

We always have your best interests in mind.

 

[Whine Lover]

"Does anyone think that mgmt's M.O. is to piss-off all of us? They know we control the fuel and effenciency. They would be fools to screw with 6000 pilots that fly 950 hrs a year."

You control.....NOTHING.

Don't overestimate your importance. ( and learn to spell. )

YKMKR

 

[Esprit]

It's dragged gerbil boy. D-R-A-G-G-E-D. dragged. Now go make happy time.

I was wundering if you had fownd a new job, guess this answers my kwestion. Flightinfo.com spell/grammar checker. Course now, you won't have time to prowl the children's playgrounds.

Esprit

 

[Whine Lover]

I like DRUG better....Poetic License Dont'cha-Know?


YKMKR

 

[Cardinal]

We blaze a trail and learn the ins and outs of int'l flying on someone else's coat-tail, and then do it ourselves. It is VERY expensive to open up a city. I believe it's a cheap way to explore intl ops.

It isn't a bloody moon mission. I think y'all could figure it out. I mean miserable little Great Lakes flew Mexico for a while. Your line of reasoning is odd.

 

[Whataburger]

"Does anyone think that mgmt's M.O. is to piss-off all of us? They know we control the fuel and effenciency. They would be fools to screw with 6000 pilots that fly 950 hrs a year."

You control.....NOTHING.

Don't overestimate your importance. ( and learn to spell. )

YKMKR

It's all about internal vs. external locust of control.

By the time someone reaches my age, the window of "learning to spell" has come and gone. I am forever stuck in mediocrity.
Please feel free to put me on your ignore list.

 

[Poahi]

Here's what planebuzz.com had to say about it:

Southwest Airlines Announces Codeshare And Some Pilots Are Not Happy

....
But wait just a minute.

Who stands to lose potential flying if the airline goes ahead with this codeshare agreement, as well as the agreement already announced with WestJet?

That's right. Southwest Airlines' pilots.

Today the PlaneBusiness email box has received more than a fistful of emails from Southwest pilots who are not happy campers. To say that this is an unusual occurrence would be a hefty understatement.

Here is an excerpt from one of the longer notes:

"In really simple terms, and feel free to use it (just don’t credit me, a bit of a witch hunt going on here), it should not be called Code Sharing, but Outsourcing.

[Southwest CEO] Kelly and SWAPA negotiated a codeshare (outsourcing) agreement in the new contract during the initial current negotiations. This was about a year ago. He stated publicly that even though it had not been voted on, that he would honor that agreement. He has since come back to our negotiators and said he wants to re-negotiate that portion of the new contract. Meanwhile, he is doing all the codesharing (outsourcing) he can while he “slow rolls” our contract negotiations.
WestJet has announced 15% growth after our agreement with them.
Volaris says they will double in size.
Kelly cut 6% of our flying.
Now the rumor is that Republic is negotiating with Kelly to take over our short haul intra-Texas flying.
I am a 20+ year guy and am really disgusted with what is going on here. I spent several years at a Lorenzo airline and am seeing parallels that I thought would never happen here. The line employees realize they are just numbers to Kelly."

 

[Full of LUV]

Wow

Here's what planebuzz.com had to say about it:

Wow, Republic seems to be everywhere.....

 

[GuppyWN]

I posted this on the other SWA thread...

Having flown a bit in Mexico, I think we need to keep in mind that those stops wouldn't all fit into the present SWA business model. There are not many places were you will get a 30 min or less turn. Things just don't happen that way.
Don't yell Philly, because alot of times you do get a decent turn there (and sometimes you don't), but I don't see ANY short turns in Cabo, Mazatlan, etc...
How will that fit?

No flame, just something to keep in mind.

Simple. If you're making the coin on the flights you schedule 1 hour turns. Or whatever they need to be. And please. Look at your trip sheet. Notice the amount of 35 minute turns? They are all over the place and this is WITH the company bragging about us pushing early.

Gup

 

[Poahi]

What kind of scope protection do the SWA pilot have? Can't they just nip this in the bud?

 

[Skank]

Wow.

How did you escape Jonestown?

He only liked the strawberry, and they had blueberry that day.

 

[Skank]

It's all about internal vs. external locust of control.

By the time someone reaches my age, the window of "learning to spell" has come and gone. I am forever stuck in mediocrity.
Please feel free to put me on your ignore list.

Yeah, but what does a bug have to do with it?

 

[Poahi]

It's all about internal vs. external locust of control.

Locus of control.

 

[Whataburger]

Yeah, but what does a bug have to do with it?

The amount of legs.

 

[waitin]

Simple. If you're making the coin on the flights you schedule 1 hour turns. Or whatever they need to be. And please. Look at your trip sheet. Notice the amount of 35 minute turns? They are all over the place and this is WITH the company bragging about us pushing early.

Gup

Exactly, Gup, and the 35 min turns work. Do you know if anybody's making money on Mexico flying right now...what are the projections?? No!
Aubie, read my first post, please...Philly DOES work, and often on a 35 min turn. Does Cabo...NO...does Mazatlan...maybe...Cancun? WE DON'T KNOW, do we? So why would we go out and do something we don't know about when we have MANY expansion opportunites here in the states? Or, better yet, we can make money off of another airline that DOES know the ins and outs of Mexico flying. It's not like we're saying we can never expand internationally, just seems like a bad idea when the economy's in the toilet, but we can still make money by LOOSELY joining with another company...
Remember, not so long ago, other SWA pilot experts (who are still here, but it's difficult to find one) were taking HK "to the mat" trying to get B Funds at SWA...good thing they didn't prevail. Also, 95% of what you see on the forum is the 5% from each spectrum....

 

[GuppyWN]

What kind of scope protection do the SWA pilot have? Can't they just nip this in the bud?

It's pretty strong. If the agreement is violated the company and union will meet "at the earliest opportunity" to talk about it. That's right - to TALK about the violation.

Gup

 

[Benhuntn]

We need to learn how to use autothrottles and VNAV first. That will only take a yr or two. Look how long it took to learn autobrakes. Then we can get online training for international flying and that shouldn't take more than 1-2 yrs.
I happen to agree with Whataburger as to how the company treats us. I also believe we are limited to how and where we fly because we have to many dinosaurs in training. Starting with BT. If we could get a training section that didn't have so many retired pilots in it we could progress.

 

[Flopgut]

You've got a lot of one runway, non-radar, terrain factor airports in Mexico. SWA is going to try to game it up just like it's Austin, TX and it ain't going to work. To the extent we know what your flying behavior will cause problems down there, will highlight the same behavior we shouldn't have to put up with here. But you get away with it in the US. I think GK is factoring this in. He doesn't want to lose that.

 

[waitin]

can always count on flop for some nice, well thought-out flame bait