Southwest Pilots!

[ASADFW7]

I haven't been at SWA long, but I think there is a big difference for new guys when they ask for flaps gear with a huge question mark or ask for them in a simple statement that is more commanding. We all know if we need a combination of drag to slow down you can add that up dozens of ways to get the same result. IE. Gear + speed brakes + flaps = 1000ft to touchdown.

If you have a plan it does not burn up tons of gas and is from the book go with it. I personally do not always want to chase the G/S from above to save gas.

In the cockpit the debate can be much easier. It is all about timing. We could write a thousand page essay about 10 seconds of timing. The key is for F/Os to be within the same margins of timing as the captain so they feel comfortable. I think most of us are. The exceptions are when both of the CPT and F/O get thrown an unexpected early descent then the book is out the window and it is all technique. We know though if you slow down before you go down it takes less distance to decelerate.

The debate is more about the changing personalities and methods of flying. How SWA flew the 200's is I am sure much different then how we fly the 700 today. I personally try to fly the as the SWA captains lead by their example, less heart burn.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you have a plan it does not burn up tons of gas and is from the book go with it. I personally do not always want to chase the G/S from above to save gas.

I hear ya Brother!!!

 

[RedBelly]

Flaps increase lift...a by-product of lift is drag....therefore by extending flaps you increase lift which will allow you to fly slower and at the same time increasing drag which will slow you down....now im confused...

In steady state flight, flaps do not increase lift... they increase the coefficient of lift... that allows you to create the same amount of lift at slower speeds.

 

[RedBelly]

But descent rate rate and speed are not the same (related yes, but not the same) If I am at the manuever speed, wings level and decending at a constant rate (therefore 1g) when we move the flaps then I am putting he least stress possible on the airplane. What that descent rate is doesn't matter. The descent rate only affects how quickly I'll slow down, outside of ATC constraints I like to slow down gradually, follow the glidepath, and configure on speed.

I understand what you are saying, and I do just what you describe when ATC constraints force my hand, but it isn't the only way to fly the plane.

I agree you have to adjust you profiles to fit in with ATC constraints. All I am saying is that when you lower the flaps, slowing to manuevering speed as quickly as possible reduces the load on the flap mechanism. It doesn't matter how you do it.

 

[ivauir]

I agree you have to adjust you profiles to fit in with ATC constraints. All I am saying is that when you lower the flaps, slowing to manuevering speed as quickly as possible reduces the load on the flap mechanism. It doesn't matter how you do it.

I am not sure what you mean by "slowing to maneuver speed as quickly as possible". I am going to presume that you mean level off to slow down as rapidly as possible. Personally I don't like it - I often do it, becasue there is no other way I know to slow from 170 at 5 miles. But it is not very smooth or comfortable in the back as you pitch to level off and then pitch to intercept the glidepath. It is legal and the way many folks fly the airplane, but it is not required.

I try to be at manuever speed when I call for the flaps, but there is no rush to get to the new manuever speed as the flaps deploy. As you descend on the glidepath the speed bleeds off nicely with no wear and tear on the aircraft and a more comfortable ride in back.

IMHO the only thing that needs to happen "as quikly as possible" in a transport category aircraft is an abort. That being said I think we are just describing different parts of the elephant and the effort to deploy flaps at maneuver speed instead of placard speed certainly is easier on the aircraft.

 

[qratez]

In steady state flight, flaps do not increase lift... they increase the coefficient of lift... that allows you to create the same amount of lift at slower speeds.

Actually in steady state flight, if you extend flaps and maintain the same airspeed your lift actually increases. You will have to adjust you angle of attack to maintain level flight.

 

[RedBelly]

Actually in steady state flight, if you extend flaps and maintain the same airspeed your lift actually increases. You will have to adjust you angle of attack to maintain level flight.

I totally agree. However, if you are in steady state flight & extend the flaps... you are no longer in steady state flight. My earlier statement was about steady state flight.

 

[RedBelly]

I am not sure what you mean by "slowing to maneuver speed as quickly as possible". I am going to presume that you mean level off to slow down as rapidly as possible. Personally I don't like it - I often do it, becasue there is no other way I know to slow from 170 at 5 miles. But it is not very smooth or comfortable in the back as you pitch to level off and then pitch to intercept the glidepath. It is legal and the way many folks fly the airplane, but it is not required.

That was not a great choice of words on my part. We are all making way too much out of this... just slow down when you chuck the flaps out.

 

[BVT94]

"LANDING GEAR DOWN!" This flap thread's wearing me out.

 

[apdsm]

If I am at the manuever speed, wings level and decending at a constant rate (therefore 1g) when we move the flaps then I am putting he least stress possible on the airplane.

But you are not at manuever speed. You select flaps 5 at 210kts and are slowing to 180kts min flap speed. The sooner the a/c slows to 180, the less stress on the flap mechanisms (spindles!)