Southwest off the runway in Spokane..

[SWA GUY]

It was a joke francis, get over it. I'll make sure and ask you permission next time I post.

See that you do.

 

[CitationUltra]

was the CA over 60?

Cuz' this might be one of the first of an eventual many instances where the slower reaction times and more susceptibility to stress and fatigue make many question why this country decided to screw over the majority of the pilot population by passing age 65

(thought someone else would beat me to saying that)

More likely some new (thirty-something) Captain that, like, sorta forgot, somewhere inside the marker, that the runway was--ya know, covered with ice and snow...

I wouldn't want to presume anything. The conditions looked extreme on the video. It could have happened to anyone who is in the habit of taxiing too fast and making 2g turns off the runway.

 

[CitationUltra]

Deleted.

 

[Benhuntn]

That was a really novel post there Ultra. Thanks for posting it twice. I watch for you on the 6 O'clock news.

 

[CitationUltra]

That was a really novel post there Ultra. Thanks for posting it twice. I watch for you on the 6 O'clock news.

Thank you for pointing out that the system posted the message a second time. I have deleted the second posting.

Good luck on the 6 o'clock news.

 

[check6]

It was definetly a rough day for all airlines in spokane yesterday. My company could not move a plane until mid-morning. Braking action was poor. The ILS 21 was out. The only carriers I saw move were Republic, Skywest, and Expressjet.

There was about 6 inches of accumulation on the ramps with a few bigger burms in some places.

Watching the Expressjet ERJ's taxi was like watching someone out 4 wheelin'. Lest I forget. . .their nosewheels were completely submerged in snow at some points.

 

[skiandsurf]

Still nothing from Gen Lee?

Either The General has done this himself, or he is upset that this didnt happen in Lubbock.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

This Lawyer in the story wasn't as nice to the SWA crew as others. Of course, he is a Lawyer.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Southwest Airlines 737 Skids on Snow at Washington's Spokane International Airport[/FONT]



2008-01-29 00:11:31 - Contact: Karen Bertoli, Public Affairs Director, Kreindler & Kreindler LLP [email protected] 312.399.7878

For Immediate Release:
Southwest Safety Incident Not the First Time
Southwest Airlines 737 Skids on Snow at Washington's Spokane International Airport


New York, NY January 28, 2008 . . .Southwest Airlines Flight 485 slides off a snow covered taxiway after landing at Washington's Spokane International Airport (GEG) Sunday afternoon. The
737, inbound from Portland, Oregon, was taxiing to the gate at around 1:40 pm when the plane's nosegear departed the snow-covered taxiway. The passengers and crew were fortunate not to be seriously injured. Southwest flight crews have a history of undertaking similarly risky aircraft operations.

'This is at least the fourth instance where a Southwest jet has overrun a runway or ran off a taxiway in just the past few years. It continues to raise serious safety concerns about Southwest's operations and culture,- says Dan Rose, partner at Kreindler & Kreindler LLP who has and is currently handling cases stemming from two separate Southwest Airlines runway overrun incidents.

One overrun occurred on Dec. 8, 2005 when Southwest Airlines Flight 1248 was landing in a snowstorm at Midway Airport and skidded off the runway killing Joshua Woods, 6, in front of his family. Similar weather conditions to the ones in Spokane prevailed at time of this incident.

 

[Turtle21]

... was slowly taxiing to the gate

slow and taxi in the same sentence? I guess it could be a first. Maybe he was a pilot from USAir filling in! They know how to taxi slow.

 

[Snapshot]

Kreindler & Kreindler LLP are the worst batch of CFR Truck chasing dirtbag lawyers on Earth. Their bread and butter is screwing pilots. They are always the first ones at any accident site blaming the crew and soliciting people to sue.

Regardless of politics, I'm happy to have ALPA on my side knowing these guys are out there.

 

[av8tor19]

As I thought about this incident, I ask the question: Where in training have you got to taxi or land on a snow covered runway?

I grew up in the North East so I know in snow, control inputs do not necessarily mean the desired returns.

I even was told of a LA captain who overshot a snow covered taxiway when the plane kept going straight when the wheel is turned. Fortunately a fresh snow covered the marks where he went in to the grass.

It can feasibly happen if someone grows up in -let's say Florida, does flight training in Florida, and someday have to land in a snow covered runway, never being in snow before.

 

[LawReview]

Snapshot - who else would you blame?

 

[skiandsurf]

It can feasibly happen if someone grows up in -let's say Florida, does flight training in Florida, and someday have to land in a snow covered runway, never being in snow before.

My guess is that this captain has landed on snow before. Nothing new for him/her.

 

[BigMeat]

Hey, there nothing wrong with having your priorities in order.

Glad everyone's OK.

Getting to the bar quicker?
I know I think the rest of us are forgetting what it means to be a pilot!!! They should have cold bears waiting for us in our rooms when we get there.

 

[Falconjet]

cold bears?

Hmmmmmmmm. You sure?

FJ

 

[fiel12]

Since SWA has been in business there has unfortunately been one fatality as a result of an accident. (MDW)

In that same time frame just to name a few:

AA (LIT) 1999 Flt# 1420 NTSB names pilot error resulting in 11 fatalities landing in a thunderstorm.

DAL (DFW) 1985 Flt# 1141 NTSB names pilot error resulting in 14 fatalities for failure to ensure flaps/ slats were in takeoff position.

NWA (DTW) 1987 Flt# 255 NTSB names pilot error resulting in 156 fatalities for failure to position flaps to take off configuration.

And, of course, there are too many more.

But you will never hear me say it's no surprise that this happened to AA,DAL, and NWA because I've seen the way they fly or heard from a friend there about ther operations.
So an airplane slid off the taxiway in poor conditions. BFD.
If you really think SWA guys are a bunch of reckless cowboys (which is wrong) you would still have to admit the safety record at SWA speaks for itself.

 

[spacecadet1]

Since SWA has been in business there has unfortunately been one fatality as a result of an accident. (MDW)

In that same time frame just to name a few:

AA (LIT) 1999 Flt# 1420 NTSB names pilot error resulting in 11 fatalities landing in a thunderstorm.

DAL (DFW) 1985 Flt# 1141 NTSB names pilot error resulting in 14 fatalities for failure to ensure flaps/ slats were in takeoff position.

NWA (DTW) 1987 Flt# 255 NTSB names pilot error resulting in 156 fatalities for failure to position flaps to take off configuration.

And, of course, there are too many more.

But you will never hear me say it's no surprise that this happened to AA,DAL, and NWA because I've seen the way they fly or heard from a friend there about ther operations.
So an airplane slid off the taxiway in poor conditions. BFD.
If you really think SWA guys are a bunch of reckless cowboys (which is wrong) you would still have to admit the safety record at SWA speaks for itself.

This isn't a slam on SW, but saying they only killed one person doesn't really present the whole picture. The Burbank and Midway accidents could just as easily have resulting in many more fatalities. Now one could argue that AA and others have had similar accidents with small or no loss of life, in addition to other worse accidents. In my view, the accident rate in this country is so low that it is difficult to draw any valid statistical conclusions (the number of accidents is less than the standard deviation).

 

[3ds]

This Lawyer in the story wasn't as nice to the SWA crew as others. Of course, he is a Lawyer.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Southwest Airlines 737 Skids on Snow at Washington's Spokane International Airport[/FONT]



2008-01-29 00:11:31 - Contact: Karen Bertoli, Public Affairs Director, Kreindler & Kreindler LLP [email protected] 312.399.7878

For Immediate Release:
Southwest Safety Incident Not the First Time
Southwest Airlines 737 Skids on Snow at Washington's Spokane International Airport


New York, NY January 28, 2008 . . .Southwest Airlines Flight 485 slides off a snow covered taxiway after landing at Washington's Spokane International Airport (GEG) Sunday afternoon. The
737, inbound from Portland, Oregon, was taxiing to the gate at around 1:40 pm when the plane's nosegear departed the snow-covered taxiway. The passengers and crew were fortunate not to be seriously injured. Southwest flight crews have a history of undertaking similarly risky aircraft operations.

'This is at least the fourth instance where a Southwest jet has overrun a runway or ran off a taxiway in just the past few years. It continues to raise serious safety concerns about Southwest's operations and culture,- says Dan Rose, partner at Kreindler & Kreindler LLP who has and is currently handling cases stemming from two separate Southwest Airlines runway overrun incidents.

One overrun occurred on Dec. 8, 2005 when Southwest Airlines Flight 1248 was landing in a snowstorm at Midway Airport and skidded off the runway killing Joshua Woods, 6, in front of his family. Similar weather conditions to the ones in Spokane prevailed at time of this incident.

Hey y'all, it's THESE GUYS who are the enemy. Not SWA or AA or DAL or LCC's or legacies.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

was the CA over 60?

Cuz' this might be one of the first of an eventual many instances where the slower reaction times and more susceptibility to stress and fatigue make many question why this country decided to screw over the majority of the pilot population by passing age 65

If the outcome of the investigation is based on emotion ( like the above statement) instead of facts...then maybe...just maybe.

I think I am now begining to understand why the vote on this issue was 390-0 in the House and passed with unanimous consent in the Senate.

 

[Aubie]

Texas-Jet-

You quote the vote in congress as relevant? Do you always show so much respect for congress' opinion on flying matters?

I agree with your post but those pushing for the rule change cherry-picked statistical data to support their cause (just like everyone does). It's interesting to me that noone is allowed to even question wether age is ever a factor in anything. Senior guys argue vehemently that 100% of pilots will be just as sharp at 65. My dad certainly thinks his driving skills are still fine even though he almost rear-ends everyone he follows. And what I see out on the line with regards to our "most experienced" pilots in terms of approaches, landings, CRM, and the ability to stay awake doesn't jive with the rhetoric. But I guess I am not allowed to bring that up.

But I completely agree it's bad form to jump to conclusions before knowing the facts. It's not fair to that crew or anyone.

 

[jke406]

I

I think I am now begining to understand why the vote on this issue was 390-0 in the House and passed with unanimous consent in the Senate.

Drink enough kool-aid and bury your head far enough in the sand, and you can understand anything, I guess.

 

[DOVPILOT]

:crying:

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Drink enough kool-aid and bury your head far enough in the sand, and you can understand anything, I guess.

I was responding to a quote that was based purely on emotion.....not the facts. Maybe that is the message that was understood in Washington from those that opposed the age change

How did your congressman vote on the issue?

Or did he even vote at all?

What do you plan to do about it?

 

[Captzaahlie]

Thank you for pointing out that the system posted the message a second time. I have deleted the second posting.

Good luck on the 6 o'clock news.

You might be are missing Hunting's point;
It was an "awe inspiring intellectually laden post" as even if just displayed one time.......

 

[Captzaahlie]

Kreindler & Kreindler LLP are the worst batch of CFR Truck chasing dirtbag lawyers on Earth. Their bread and butter is screwing pilots. They are always the first ones at any accident site blaming the crew and soliciting people to sue.

Regardless of politics, I'm happy to have ALPA on my side knowing these guys are out there.

ALPA on my side?

I've heard how they "HELP" their crewmembers who are in trouble. No thanks, if my ticket is on the line I'll hire my own lawyer to show the ALPA attorneys how to turn the knob on the court house door.

Visualize the hot tramp at the bar holding her drink speaking to some guy in a suit at the bar.........

Having already downed a few power drinks, she turned around, faced him, looked him straight in the eye and said, "Listen up, Buddy. I screw anybody, any time, anywhere, your place, my place, in the car, front door, back door, on the ground, standing up, sitting down, naked or with clothes on, dirty, clean . . . it doesn't matter to me. I've been doing it ever since I got out of college and I just love it."

Eyes now wide with interest, he responded, "'No kidding. I'm a lawyer, too. What firm are you with?"

 

[CitationUltra]

You might be are missing Hunting's point;
It was an "awe inspiring intellectually laden post" as even if just displayed one time.......

I missed your point too--if you had one.

 

[turn&pull]

Per our OPS manual...max taxi on the straight 30kts and for a turn 20kts.

Very seldom here at SWA have I had to call "Ground-speed". Of course this was not an OPS thing...it was a judgment thing and obviously this Captains judgment was a little off.

I've been in the business for 10+ years and I have learned that there are a few really great pilots and a few pilots who ought to be doing something else. Most of us are somewhere in the middle.

By the same token, even the best pilots can make mistakes. Hence the word "accident"

 

[Whataburger]

We fly over 1 MILLION legs a year. Something is bound to happen. Good thing the pax, crew and plane are all in good shape.
Fly safe and expect the unexpected.

 

[Whataburger]

We fly over 1 MILLION legs a year. Something is bound to happen. Good thing the pax, crew and plane are all in good shape.
Fly safe and expect the unexpected.

 

[Tanker Clown]

This would never happen if they wore double breasted jackets!