Southwest duty rig

[AWACoff]

Southwest pilots,

Is this true:


Our trips pay the following minimums:

1 Day Trip: 6.5 TFP
2 Day Trip: 13 TFP
3 Day Trip: 19.5 TFP
4 Day Trip: 26 TFP

You basically get paid the higher of what you block each day or the number of hours on duty times .74


If I understand this correctly, your duty rig a FAR better than any I have ever heard of before. The best I've ever had was a 1:2 duty rig (1 hour of pay per 2 hours of duty).

 

[scoreboardII]

True.

 

[firstthird]

It is a little more complex than that.

ADG = average daily guarantee =6.5 per day, which is what your example above shows

DPM = duty period minimum = 5 per duty period (read day)

DHR = duty hour rig = .74 like you said, so a 10 hour duty day would pay 7.4 trips

part of the difference between the 1:2 that others might have and our is the difference between trips and credit hours. I think that 1.13 is the accepted trip/credit hour conversion. so for us, 2 hours = 1.48 trips = 1.31 credit hours using the 1.13 conversion. still better than 1:2 though.

not sure how or where the 1.13 came from. I generally average 1.25 trips per flight hour. but I know that many other airlines average more credit hours than flight hours so that isn't a great data point.

I'm not that up on other airlines, but our rigs seem to work for us pretty well.

 

[GuppyWN]

Dude. Why make it so hard?

6.5 a day minimum average.

Gup

 

[AWACoff]

Thanks guys. I was mostly wondering about how your duty rig compared to the old standard duty rig of 1:2.

1.31 credit hours for every 2 hours of duty is phenomenally better than 1:2. Just another area for our NC to be aware of (hopefully they already are).

 

[waveflyer]

They already said it but it's .74 TRIPS FOR PAY per duty hour- not flight hour: duty hour- I'll let someone else give the formula for a tfp- it's still very good - I agree.

I think this decades bk's and destroying a lot of the rigs industry wide- is mgmt telling pilots they ought to subsidize the hub and spoke system they created- then framing it as a "can't get paid for doing nothing" argument.

 

[jhill]

Southwest pilots,

Is this true:


Our trips pay the following minimums:

1 Day Trip: 6.5 TFP
2 Day Trip: 13 TFP
3 Day Trip: 19.5 TFP
4 Day Trip: 26 TFP

You basically get paid the higher of what you block each day or the number of hours on duty times .74


If I understand this correctly, your duty rig a FAR better than any I have ever heard of before. The best I've ever had was a 1:2 duty rig (1 hour of pay per 2 hours of duty).

Sort of true. Minimum pay for a day is 5 tfp. A trip must average 6.5 per day and the duty hour ratio is .74 tfp for each hour of duty. A trip will pay these minimums or actual flown. So for example a 3 day trip could pay as follows:

Day one 8 tfp actual
Day two 3 actual so the 5 min
Day three 6 actual
total of 19 tfp so the 6.5 min per day would come in and the trip would pay 19.5

 

[jhill]

Dude. Why make it so hard?

6.5 a day minimum average.

Gup

Because when you are checking your payroll report you better know what they owe you.

 

[Skyboy722]

so for us, 2 hours = 1.48 trips = 1.31 credit hours using the 1.13 conversion.

Whoa. Don't say "credit hours" and "trips" in the same sentence. Keep it simple.

2 hours of duty pays 1.48. Period. Other rigs may apply.

 

[Caveman]

Every time SWA's TFP comes up in a conversation I'm left wondering why your company makes it so convoluted. Multiply flight time by an hourly wage, apply any rigs and you're done. What's with the TFP conversion? What purpose does it serve? (BTW, great duty rig!)

 

[GuppyWN]

Every time SWA's TFP comes up in a conversation I'm left wondering why your company makes it so convoluted. Multiply flight time by an hourly wage, apply any rigs and you're done. What's with the TFP conversion? What purpose does it serve? (BTW, great duty rig!)

Because if you mulitply 730 x $168 you get $122,640. That's around $100k off my W2 this year. I'll take the TFP conversion and rig package.

Know what I mean?

Gup

p.s. Jhill - I was mainly speaking to the "outsiders" using my KISS concept.

 

[Caveman]

Why not convert the TFP rate to represent the actual hourly rate? Instead of $168 X 730 X 1.13, simply convert $168 to $189 (168 x 1.13) and use that as an hourly rate. It's the same amount of money. It just seems unnecessary to have the extra step of converting to/from TFP. From the outside looking in it doesn't appear to serve any purpose that I can tell. It's not right or wrong, just weird.

My understanding is it's a leftover from when SWA first started and they were paid by the trip (TFP) from LUV to somewhere in TX, AUS I think. It was a flat fixed amount times how many 'trips' you did. I would think that by now it would be cumbersome for everybody concerned to hang on to that methodology. Hey, there's something to be said for tradition if that's what this really is all about. It's still weird.

 

[lowlycfi]

FWIW, when I was a SWA F/A we had the same rigs as well.

 

[Fly-diver]

Pay by the mile, not by the hour.

Crews are indoctrinated to get the job done efficiently, and not drag their heels for an extra tenth. The rigs have blurred the line between hourly pay and distance pay, but the traditon of operating efficiently continues at SWA.

 

[firstthird]

Whoa. Don't say "credit hours" and "trips" in the same sentence. Keep it simple.

2 hours of duty pays 1.48. Period. Other rigs may apply.

actually, it doesn't pay 1.48 period. if you say that then guys who get paid credit hours get a distorted view. you have to explain TFP vs. the credit hours, which I did.

I doubt my 1.33 credit hours per 2 duty hours is perfect, but it paints a far more accurate picture to most guys than 1.48 trips per 2 duty hours. NO ONE besides SWA guys know trips for pay and frankly many of us don't know them as well as we could/should. me included.

 

[Donald]

"Get her Done". Once those engines are started, get her in the air. No sense wasting gas on the ground. Besides, time saved in the middle of the day means more time at the next stop. At the end of the day it equals another beer at the bar.

 

[FatesPawn]

Why not convert the TFP rate to represent the actual hourly rate? Instead of $168 X 730 X 1.13, simply convert $168 to $189 (168 x 1.13) and use that as an hourly rate. It's the same amount of money. It just seems unnecessary to have the extra step of converting to/from TFP. From the outside looking in it doesn't appear to serve any purpose that I can tell. It's not right or wrong, just weird.

My understanding is it's a leftover from when SWA first started and they were paid by the trip (TFP) from LUV to somewhere in TX, AUS I think. It was a flat fixed amount times how many 'trips' you did. I would think that by now it would be cumbersome for everybody concerned to hang on to that methodology. Hey, there's something to be said for tradition if that's what this really is all about. It's still weird.

Caveman,

The REAL reason it won't change any time soon? Because that's the way we've always done it. DAL-HOU 1.0. No single operation can pay less including an air-return to the airport. Yes, it's convoluted somewhat, but nobody on either side is looking to change it. The W2's work for us and the company apparently.

Since changing it would involve negotiations, you have to ask what's the motivation and what's the tradeoff. Who wants it and why.

It's not important for us to be "like everybody else" so I can't see a reason either side would want to change the metric.

-fate

 

[Caveman]

Thanks for the HOU correction Fate. Tradition is a good thing and that's as good a reason as any to keep TFP.