LittleDeuce
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- Nov 28, 2001
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Southwest Crew Meals?
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Mr.Aviation
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 49
Answer to Question
Here are the specifics from the contract on per diem.
__________
1. The Company will pay directly for any hotel room and local transportation required.
2. Per Diem will be calculated as follows:
a. Pilots on reserve will not be paid per diem unless they are called out to fly, in which event they will be paid under 2.b. below.
b. For a pairing from one (1) hour prior to scheduled departure time from domicile until one-half
30) hour after either the pairing arrives in domicile, or the scheduled deadhead flight arrives in the appropriate domicile.
c. A pilot who is called out to fly other than on a reserve day will be paid per diem as applicable in 2.b., above.
d. A pilot required to be out of domicile in the performance of that pilot's duty (i.e., Check Airmen on duty out of town, and pilots training out of town) will receive per diem at the rate of seventeen (17) hours per day.
3. Per diem will be paid at the following hourly rates:
$2.15 an hour as of 1 Sept '99
4. Each pilot will receive the amount of per diem as stated in Paragraph 2. above except during vacation, if terminated, suspended or on leave of absence of any kind during the month, in which case per diem will be reduced accordingly.
_____________
We do not have crew meals. At most airports I have had sufficient time to get the required food I need to fly. For those who think we are worked too hard, yes we do work hard, I'm not ashamed of saying I do. It is a work ethic I hope my children immitate.
As for other comments, my thoughts,
Which philosophy would you want your child to be taught?
"Paid the most for working the least."
"An honest day's work for an honest day's pay."
I believe we can & will be paid more for our current contribution to SWA's profitability but bashing the company for not paying me enough when I knew what the contract was when I came here is a bit disingenious (but quite in line with normal aircrew whining). For my fellow aviators who advised me not to go to SWA but go to UAL, AA or DAL, I think I made the right decision but I won't criticize them for theirs. No pilot at SWA works "like farm animals", or any animals for that matter. We can all debate the level of "work" any commercial airline pilot does & I won't here.
I wish there was news on the horizon for all the poolies & folks waiting for interviews. My ancedotal evidence of full flights, the May results showing we filled the same number of seats in May '02 as we did in May '01 & other evidence is all good signs that hiring will begin later this summer IMHO. Thanks for your patience & loyalty to SWA.
Thanks also to the flightinfo.com folks for this web site!!!
cheers,
Here are the specifics from the contract on per diem.
__________
1. The Company will pay directly for any hotel room and local transportation required.
2. Per Diem will be calculated as follows:
a. Pilots on reserve will not be paid per diem unless they are called out to fly, in which event they will be paid under 2.b. below.
b. For a pairing from one (1) hour prior to scheduled departure time from domicile until one-half
30) hour after either the pairing arrives in domicile, or the scheduled deadhead flight arrives in the appropriate domicile.c. A pilot who is called out to fly other than on a reserve day will be paid per diem as applicable in 2.b., above.
d. A pilot required to be out of domicile in the performance of that pilot's duty (i.e., Check Airmen on duty out of town, and pilots training out of town) will receive per diem at the rate of seventeen (17) hours per day.
3. Per diem will be paid at the following hourly rates:
$2.15 an hour as of 1 Sept '99
4. Each pilot will receive the amount of per diem as stated in Paragraph 2. above except during vacation, if terminated, suspended or on leave of absence of any kind during the month, in which case per diem will be reduced accordingly.
_____________
We do not have crew meals. At most airports I have had sufficient time to get the required food I need to fly. For those who think we are worked too hard, yes we do work hard, I'm not ashamed of saying I do. It is a work ethic I hope my children immitate.
As for other comments, my thoughts,
Which philosophy would you want your child to be taught?
"Paid the most for working the least."
"An honest day's work for an honest day's pay."
I believe we can & will be paid more for our current contribution to SWA's profitability but bashing the company for not paying me enough when I knew what the contract was when I came here is a bit disingenious (but quite in line with normal aircrew whining). For my fellow aviators who advised me not to go to SWA but go to UAL, AA or DAL, I think I made the right decision but I won't criticize them for theirs. No pilot at SWA works "like farm animals", or any animals for that matter. We can all debate the level of "work" any commercial airline pilot does & I won't here.
I wish there was news on the horizon for all the poolies & folks waiting for interviews. My ancedotal evidence of full flights, the May results showing we filled the same number of seats in May '02 as we did in May '01 & other evidence is all good signs that hiring will begin later this summer IMHO. Thanks for your patience & loyalty to SWA.
Thanks also to the flightinfo.com folks for this web site!!!
cheers,
Slug
SWA Line Swine
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
- Posts
- 496
Jealous?
Chase,
Nice reply and thanks for all the info. I can tell you your post struck a nerve about the work ethic. One of the things I didn't like about UAL was the sitting around not doing squat. When I am away, I don't want to be sitting around in my hotel room making 3.5 to 1 duty rig, I want to be flying and earning my keep. I had one 5 day trip that had two 36 hour sits. Not my idea of working for a living. Yep, getting paid, but not turning one wheel toward company profit. I look at quality of life between my two companies, UAL and SWA. UAL working 18 easy days per month (yes I commute) or busting my hump for 13 to 14 days per and getting home a lot more. 4 to 5 days a month = 48 to 60 days more home per year. No question as to which to do. As for Mr Aviation he and his 13,500 civilian hours sound a little jealous to me.
Pass the koolaid and I'll see ya in Dallas this summer.
Slug
Chase,
Nice reply and thanks for all the info. I can tell you your post struck a nerve about the work ethic. One of the things I didn't like about UAL was the sitting around not doing squat. When I am away, I don't want to be sitting around in my hotel room making 3.5 to 1 duty rig, I want to be flying and earning my keep. I had one 5 day trip that had two 36 hour sits. Not my idea of working for a living. Yep, getting paid, but not turning one wheel toward company profit. I look at quality of life between my two companies, UAL and SWA. UAL working 18 easy days per month (yes I commute) or busting my hump for 13 to 14 days per and getting home a lot more. 4 to 5 days a month = 48 to 60 days more home per year. No question as to which to do. As for Mr Aviation he and his 13,500 civilian hours sound a little jealous to me.
Pass the koolaid and I'll see ya in Dallas this summer.
Slug
Mr.Aviation
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 49
F/O
Smells like....
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2002
- Posts
- 485
Slug
That part about "flying and earning your keep" at SWA and "getting paid but not turning one wheel toward company profit" at UAL.......did you tell SWA that during the interview? If so I'm sure they really dug it....
Looks like you were on the Bus. Judging from the fact that you are furloughed, I can't imagine you were off of reserve for very long, if at all. Maybe they weren't using you much? How about after 9/11?
Especially after 9/11, I can tell you the average Guppy pilot on reserve at ORD busted their ass on a very frequent basis. I don't remember many "easy days" or IDs with multiple 36 hour layovers. I do remember getting many reassignment and "call the crew desk on arrival" ACARS messages, flying lots of IDs that had been chopped up all to hell, and flying with captains who said I was the third F/O they'd seen on the ID.
In any event, you appear to have been more suited to SWA than to UAL to begin with. Good luck at SWA. I'm afraid, however, that a contract battle with management could be in your future. Shades of UAL summer 2000? Unlikely, but be mindful that the days of "shining, happy employees", fun and games, and ODing on Kool-Aid are over.
That part about "flying and earning your keep" at SWA and "getting paid but not turning one wheel toward company profit" at UAL.......did you tell SWA that during the interview? If so I'm sure they really dug it....
Looks like you were on the Bus. Judging from the fact that you are furloughed, I can't imagine you were off of reserve for very long, if at all. Maybe they weren't using you much? How about after 9/11?
Especially after 9/11, I can tell you the average Guppy pilot on reserve at ORD busted their ass on a very frequent basis. I don't remember many "easy days" or IDs with multiple 36 hour layovers. I do remember getting many reassignment and "call the crew desk on arrival" ACARS messages, flying lots of IDs that had been chopped up all to hell, and flying with captains who said I was the third F/O they'd seen on the ID.
In any event, you appear to have been more suited to SWA than to UAL to begin with. Good luck at SWA. I'm afraid, however, that a contract battle with management could be in your future. Shades of UAL summer 2000? Unlikely, but be mindful that the days of "shining, happy employees", fun and games, and ODing on Kool-Aid are over.
LittleDeuce
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 341
MLBWINGBORN
Freedom Fighter
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 476
To all..
Someone much wiser than i years ago told me that everyone ends up where they belong for one reason or another..
For one choice or another...For one path or another..We always seem to end up were we are the most comfortable or best suited sooner or later..
While this may seem an overly simple way of looking at the current situation,i think it has its merits at times..
As we all know most airlines are after a fashion looking for a person that will fit into their culture..So it would stand to reason that they would for the most part look at the job with more or less the same general outlook..
Bashing a fellow aviator or another airlines life style simply because you are attracted to something different for your own reasons is simply childish...
I for one am very happy at SWA and have found the people that i work with to be nothing less than outstanding..And no..Im not much of a Kool Aid drinker at this point in my life and tend to call things as i see them..
If you want to work for a stable,motivated,inwardly focused airline you may want to consider SWA..But dont come here thinking that its like any other airline.
Its not by a long shot and the reason its been around as long as it has is just that..Its different...
So..If you choose not to try for SWA for those reasons known only to you..I wish you well and good luck at any of the other fine but troubled carriers..
But..Show me and my fellow SWA workers the professional respect that we have earned by creating a great airline in one of the toughest business markets on the planet and not look down your noses at us because we arnt your cup of tea..
Mike
MLBWINGBORN
Someone much wiser than i years ago told me that everyone ends up where they belong for one reason or another..
For one choice or another...For one path or another..We always seem to end up were we are the most comfortable or best suited sooner or later..
While this may seem an overly simple way of looking at the current situation,i think it has its merits at times..
As we all know most airlines are after a fashion looking for a person that will fit into their culture..So it would stand to reason that they would for the most part look at the job with more or less the same general outlook..
Bashing a fellow aviator or another airlines life style simply because you are attracted to something different for your own reasons is simply childish...
I for one am very happy at SWA and have found the people that i work with to be nothing less than outstanding..And no..Im not much of a Kool Aid drinker at this point in my life and tend to call things as i see them..
If you want to work for a stable,motivated,inwardly focused airline you may want to consider SWA..But dont come here thinking that its like any other airline.
Its not by a long shot and the reason its been around as long as it has is just that..Its different...
So..If you choose not to try for SWA for those reasons known only to you..I wish you well and good luck at any of the other fine but troubled carriers..
But..Show me and my fellow SWA workers the professional respect that we have earned by creating a great airline in one of the toughest business markets on the planet and not look down your noses at us because we arnt your cup of tea..
Mike
MLBWINGBORN
Mike as always you have saved the best for last...
After 20 years of flying for Uncle Sam I have to believe that the work load at SWA will be a welcome change but not a huge shock to my personal work ethic. As I see it SWA has found a way to attract folks who no shiite have pride in what and how they do it and a team mindset that I don't hear about or see at the other folks employers...
Hoping to join the team...
"Krunch"
After 20 years of flying for Uncle Sam I have to believe that the work load at SWA will be a welcome change but not a huge shock to my personal work ethic. As I see it SWA has found a way to attract folks who no shiite have pride in what and how they do it and a team mindset that I don't hear about or see at the other folks employers...
Hoping to join the team...
"Krunch"
FearlessFreep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 330
MLBWINGBORN,
I think that I like better what I heard from someone that started their class with United.
The instructor told all in attendance that they were LUCKY to be there. He said that with all that people have to do to get selected, interviewed and accepted it was LUCK that was the overriding factor. Just the shear number of applicants makes it difficult for them to choose the candidate. He said LUCK played a major part of the game.
There are many people out there that probably would make excellent employees for WN. I am sure that there have been many that have interviewed numerous times and have been rejected. It is the LUCK of being chosen out of thousands of applicants. All that you can do is go in with the best qualifications that you can muster that you feel would give you the best shot at scoring a career.
I have tried to soothe good well qualified people's feelings after having been rejected by WN. They usually take it strongly to heart. What pray tell can you tell from a person in an hour and a half? I have to remind people that they are being judged by 3 people that they seen individually no longer than half an hour.
Maybe the candidate answered one question wrong? Maybe they tried too hard to impress? Or maybe they just didn'tt shine well on that day or during the interview process?
Now for the other hard issue. Timing. Timing is everything and is not something that can be easily controlled or forecast. I doubt that anyone had the clairvoyance to predict 911 and the outcome. Just having the correct timing getting into this industry is tricky. There are many many people who got into it a time where they could breeze though the whole pilot track and score a job with the majors with less than 2000 hours, and yes some of these people are still working. I have known other people that spent many many years instructing or doing other entry level jobs because there was NOTHING out there. Is this their fault? Certainly not.
Do we get what we want or what would be best for us? No. It is all what you can get. We all just put all of our efforts into it and hope for the best.
It is all LUCK & TIMING!
I think that I like better what I heard from someone that started their class with United.
The instructor told all in attendance that they were LUCKY to be there. He said that with all that people have to do to get selected, interviewed and accepted it was LUCK that was the overriding factor. Just the shear number of applicants makes it difficult for them to choose the candidate. He said LUCK played a major part of the game.
There are many people out there that probably would make excellent employees for WN. I am sure that there have been many that have interviewed numerous times and have been rejected. It is the LUCK of being chosen out of thousands of applicants. All that you can do is go in with the best qualifications that you can muster that you feel would give you the best shot at scoring a career.
I have tried to soothe good well qualified people's feelings after having been rejected by WN. They usually take it strongly to heart. What pray tell can you tell from a person in an hour and a half? I have to remind people that they are being judged by 3 people that they seen individually no longer than half an hour.
Maybe the candidate answered one question wrong? Maybe they tried too hard to impress? Or maybe they just didn'tt shine well on that day or during the interview process?
Now for the other hard issue. Timing. Timing is everything and is not something that can be easily controlled or forecast. I doubt that anyone had the clairvoyance to predict 911 and the outcome. Just having the correct timing getting into this industry is tricky. There are many many people who got into it a time where they could breeze though the whole pilot track and score a job with the majors with less than 2000 hours, and yes some of these people are still working. I have known other people that spent many many years instructing or doing other entry level jobs because there was NOTHING out there. Is this their fault? Certainly not.
Do we get what we want or what would be best for us? No. It is all what you can get. We all just put all of our efforts into it and hope for the best.
It is all LUCK & TIMING!
MLBWINGBORN
Freedom Fighter
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 476
Points well taken..
Food for further thought..
I perhapes was lucky when i got my first rating..Now..several ratings later..I tend to think i might know something about what im doing as opposed to being lucky on any given day..
If you are lucky enough to get a job at a major without any research or prep..Yeah..I would call that one luck..
If you land a job at a major after watching them,researching them,preping for them,and making sure you are qualified for the job because you have inside knowledge..I tend to think you may have in this case made your own version of "luck"..
Or at least had a hand in it..
As far as timing goes..
If you happen to be standing behind the door of the CPs office as he fires someone from a job you are qualified to do..Yeah..Thats what i would call luck..
If you happen to be in a position for the job opening because you have once again done your home work and been net working your butt off and you get the call five minutes before the guy gets fired so you can break all the local speed limits to get there before the door slams..Id say again you had a major hand in making your own "timing"...
I am the most unlikley person you would ever think of giving an airliner full of people to..
I was told at an early age that the closest i might get to a jet would be to drive a fuel truck on the ramp..Another long story that one...
Anyway...I must admit to a certain amount of luck and fortune in my life but the rest i can truly say was as a result of being one of the last ones to get back up after being kicked in the acorns by this thing we love..
And treating people the very best i could along the way every time i had the chance..
But when it came time for the next job..I researched and preped my A$$ off and for the most part i think thats why i got the jobs i did..
But..Then again..The job that had the most impact on my life as a pilot was as a result of buying a guy a 50 cent Cherry Coke..Five years later on a Sunday afternoon he called to offer me my first jet PIC job..
Luck..Timing?
Or just a guy that didnt have change one hot day at an airport and a young kid with only a dollar in quarters in his whole wallet that offered to share a bench and 50 cents with a stranger..
You make the call..
Be well...Prep well...and good luck with your timing..
Mike
MLBWINGBORN
Food for further thought..
I perhapes was lucky when i got my first rating..Now..several ratings later..I tend to think i might know something about what im doing as opposed to being lucky on any given day..
If you are lucky enough to get a job at a major without any research or prep..Yeah..I would call that one luck..
If you land a job at a major after watching them,researching them,preping for them,and making sure you are qualified for the job because you have inside knowledge..I tend to think you may have in this case made your own version of "luck"..
Or at least had a hand in it..
As far as timing goes..
If you happen to be standing behind the door of the CPs office as he fires someone from a job you are qualified to do..Yeah..Thats what i would call luck..
If you happen to be in a position for the job opening because you have once again done your home work and been net working your butt off and you get the call five minutes before the guy gets fired so you can break all the local speed limits to get there before the door slams..Id say again you had a major hand in making your own "timing"...
I am the most unlikley person you would ever think of giving an airliner full of people to..
I was told at an early age that the closest i might get to a jet would be to drive a fuel truck on the ramp..Another long story that one...
Anyway...I must admit to a certain amount of luck and fortune in my life but the rest i can truly say was as a result of being one of the last ones to get back up after being kicked in the acorns by this thing we love..
And treating people the very best i could along the way every time i had the chance..
But when it came time for the next job..I researched and preped my A$$ off and for the most part i think thats why i got the jobs i did..
But..Then again..The job that had the most impact on my life as a pilot was as a result of buying a guy a 50 cent Cherry Coke..Five years later on a Sunday afternoon he called to offer me my first jet PIC job..
Luck..Timing?
Or just a guy that didnt have change one hot day at an airport and a young kid with only a dollar in quarters in his whole wallet that offered to share a bench and 50 cents with a stranger..
You make the call..
Be well...Prep well...and good luck with your timing..
Mike
MLBWINGBORN
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