Southwest CEO: 'I'd rather have a customer than a bag fee'

[Candide]

A few weeks ago, I confronted Scope Out RJs with the challenge below. Apparently, I need to extend the invitation to johnsonrod, MaxPowers, and General Lee.

I completely agree that as a profession, we need to discourage the practice of pilots paying employers for the right of employment (i.e. PFT). But, if you guys are going to deride fellow pilots for simply investing in their career to bolster their resume, you better not have:

1. Attended a civilian flight school or aviation college. By definition, they cost money. Quite a bit of money, in fact.
2. Paid any money pursuing your CFI, Commercial, MEL, ATP, FEw. etc. These are "ratings", just like a 737 type is a rating; ink on a license.
3. Worked at an airline for which first year pay was significantly lower than second year pay (this is a mechanism for subsidizing training costs).

So, without further ado, here's your challenge:

So...Scope out RJ's, as a SWA pilot, I challenge you to a little duel. I've listed below every expenditure I've ever made to advance my career (flight school, CFI, Comm, Multi, ATP, type ratings, etc.). I challenge you to do the same.

If my expenditures exceed your expenditures, you may continue to insult my job Southwest as being "PFT" without regard to the statement's accuracy. But: If you've spent more to get your job at Delta than I've spent to get my job at Southwest, I will reserve the right to call you out for being a PFT'er after every post you make.

In your rather odd world, virtue is defined by not investing in one's career. So, how do you compare?

Me:
Flight school: $0
Comm: $100 for Mil Equivalency prep/exam
ATP written: $120 for test prep, exam
ATP flight: $0 (flown in military aircraft w/FAA examiner)
737 type: $0
=$220 total

You: ?

BTW, Scope Out RJs did not take the challenge. Instead, he descended into a series of increasingly profane and irrational rants, most of which were deleted by a moderator.

 

[B727Driver]

BTW, Scope Out RJs did not take the challenge. Instead, he descended into a series of increasingly profane and irrational rants, most of which were deleted by a moderator.

At least he is consistent. Moderator, it’s about time.

 

[dicko]

Who paid for your training?

Let me guess........your 747 capt. daddy?

Who's your Daddy Rod ?

 

[johnsonrod]

Who's your Daddy Rod ?

He's retired now, and spends Winters at his condo skiing Steamboat, and Summers in Minnesota on a lake. I hope to do the same eventually.

 

[johnsonrod]

A few weeks ago, I confronted Scope Out RJs with the challenge below. Apparently, I need to extend the invitation to johnsonrod, MaxPowers, and General Lee.

I completely agree that as a profession, we need to discourage the practice of pilots paying employers for the right of employment (i.e. PFT). But, if you guys are going to deride fellow pilots for simply investing in their career to bolster their resume, you better not have:

1. Attended a civilian flight school or aviation college. By definition, they cost money. Quite a bit of money, in fact.
2. Paid any money pursuing your CFI, Commercial, MEL, ATP, FEw. etc. These are "ratings", just like a 737 type is a rating; ink on a license.
3. Worked at an airline for which first year pay was significantly lower than second year pay (this is a mechanism for subsidizing training costs



So, without further ado, here's your challenge:


BTW, Scope Out RJs did not take the challenge. Instead, he descended into a series of increasingly profane and irrational rants, most of which were deleted by a moderator.

I finished my ratings as I finished college, and then moved from crappy aviation job to small cargo, to my current company. I will not pay even more to further my career because I think by now I've paid enough through HARD WORK and experience. I shouldn't have to pay even more, that just isn't right.

 

[Candide]

I shouldn't have to pay even more, that just isn't right.

A few observations:

1. First and foremost, you're a fellow airline pilot, therefore I have a great deal of respect for you and wish the absolute best for your future. I hope you do get on with Delta and that Delta returns to inflation adjusted Contract2000 +. I sincerely do. This profession has been in a tailspin; I want the other majors to get at least our wages and work rules for narrowbody, and exceed our rates for widebody.

2. If you feel like you don't want to invest any more money into your career and therefore won't apply to SWA since you don't have a 737 type rating, that's perfectly fine. But please realize that we all invest some money into our careers (your flight school expenses far exceed a type rating). And to castigate the group of your fellow pilots who are almost single-handedly preserving pilot wages in this forlorn industry is counterproductive as well as hypocritical.

3. You may want to reconsider your hobby of saturating this board with your views on how Airtran and Southwest should integrate their pilot groups. We're at the next level up. Some pilots at both airlines have been around almost as long as your dad. And we don't appreciate your oddly prolific and disquietingly extreme "viewpoint" added to our already contentious situation.

 

[johnsonrod]

A few observations:

1. First and foremost, you're a fellow airline pilot, therefore I have a great deal of respect for you and wish the absolute best for your future. I hope you do get on with Delta and that Delta returns to inflation adjusted Contract2000 +. I sincerely do. This profession has been in a tailspin; I want the other majors to get at least our wages and work rules for narrowbody, and exceed our rates for widebody.

2. If you feel like you don't want to invest any more money into your career and therefore won't apply to SWA since you don't have a 737 type rating, that's perfectly fine. But please realize that we all invest some money into our careers (your flight school expenses far exceed a type rating). And to castigate the group of your fellow pilots who are almost single-handedly preserving pilot wages in this forlorn industry is counterproductive as well as
hypocritical.

3. You may want to reconsider your hobby of saturating this board with your views on how Airtran and Southwest should integrate their pilot groups. We're at the next level up. Some pilots at both airlines have been around almost as long as your dad. And we don't appreciate your oddly prolific and disquietingly extreme "viewpoint" added to our already contentious situation.

First off, thanks for the good wishes, I do hope to get an interview with that certain airline, and move forward from there. As far as you doing what you needed to do to "further" your career, unfortunately you had to do it that way. It's hard to justify that with your extremely profitable company. Respect goes both ways. And guys like my dad would shake his head at guys like you who had to buy their way into a job. Also, I will continue to give my viewpoints when needed. I am impressed with this Delta guy FDJ2, he seems to have very good insight on the SLI process. I suggest you reread his posts.

 

[Candide]

First off, thanks for the good wishes, I do hope to get an interview with that certain airline, and move forward from there. As far as you doing what you needed to do to "further" your career, unfortunately you had to do it that way. It's hard to justify that with your extremely profitable company. Respect goes both ways. And guys like my dad would shake his head at guys like you who had to buy their way into a job. Also, I will continue to give my viewpoints when needed. I am impressed with this Delta guy FDJ2, he seems to have very good insight on the SLI process. I suggest you reread his posts.

Apparently you didn't notice the part about how I paid ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR ANY RATINGS. My 737 type rating cost me the $1.50 in gas it took to drive to the FSDO with my Navy log book and training jacket in hand. But, I realize that I was largely lucky in this regard; therefore, I don't criticize you for paying for the relatively extremely high cost of your flight training.

Please consider this exchange as a teaching point illustrating the importance of listening more and talking less.

 

[johnsonrod]

Apparently you didn't notice the part about how I paid ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR ANY RATINGS. My 737 type rating cost me the $1.50 in gas it took to drive to the FSDO with my Navy log book and training jacket in hand. But, I realize that I was largely lucky in this regard; therefore, I don't criticize you for paying for the relatively extremely high cost of your flight training.

Please consider this exchange as a teaching point illustrating the importance of listening more and talking less.

Talking less? You can hear me? If you didn't pay for your type, then Grrrrreat. The policy still stinks for everyone else who has to. You seem blind to that fact, even though the rest of us aren't. If you think it's ok, then it must be!

 

[Candide]

You seem blind to that fact, even though the rest of us aren't.

Since you feel comfortable speaking for the population of lurkers and posters here, what do you think their opinion is of an RJ guy posting with crazy frequency about an (inherently excruciating) SLI between two major airline pilot groups?

It's like a young, single guy loudly and incessantly opining about his uncle's divorce...the opinion is inappropriate, unappreciated, and sophomoric.

 

[johnsonrod]

Since you feel comfortable speaking for the population of lurkers and posters here, what do you think their opinion is of an RJ guy posting with crazy frequency about an (inherently excruciating) SLI between two major airline pilot groups?

It's like a young, single guy loudly and incessantly opining about his uncle's divorce...the opinion is inappropriate, unappreciated, and sophomoric.

I paid attention when my father was going through this. This isn't new to me. Maybe I've got insight that some of you need. You're not the moderator, and they haven't sanctioned me. Don't tell me what to do. Sometimes the truth hurts, about pay for training and common sense for an SLI. You are obviously upset, and we know why. Again, don't state what I can and cannot do, you don't have that authority.

 

[Candide]

I paid attention when my father was going through this. This isn't new to me. Maybe I've got insight that some of you need. You're not the moderator, and they haven't sanctioned me. Don't tell me what to do. Sometimes the truth hurts, about pay for training and common sense for an SLI. You are obviously upset, and we know why. Again, don't state what I can and cannot do, you don't have that authority.

Couple of things:

1. In keeping with my Voltaire theme: I disagree with what you say, but will fight to the death to preserve your right to say it.

I'm not trying to censor you, just to encourage you to acquire a bit more self-awareness.

2. So if the young, single nephew's parents split up, then he has license to lecture his uncle about his pending divorce? Because they're all so similar...?!

 

[U2DRVR]

Since you feel comfortable speaking for the population of lurkers and posters here, what do you think their opinion is of an RJ guy posting with crazy frequency about an (inherently excruciating) SLI between two major airline pilot groups?

It's like a young, single guy loudly and incessantly opining about his uncle's divorce...the opinion is inappropriate, unappreciated, and sophomoric.

...immature, juvenile, inept, irrelevant...

and he definitely does not speak for us lurkers.

-U2

 

[Max Powers]

A few weeks ago, I confronted Scope Out RJs with the challenge below. Apparently, I need to extend the invitation to johnsonrod, MaxPowers, and General Lee.

I completely agree that as a profession, we need to discourage the practice of pilots paying employers for the right of employment (i.e. PFT). But, if you guys are going to deride fellow pilots for simply investing in their career to bolster their resume, you better not have:

1. Attended a civilian flight school or aviation college. By definition, they cost money. Quite a bit of money, in fact.
2. Paid any money pursuing your CFI, Commercial, MEL, ATP, FEw. etc. These are "ratings", just like a 737 type is a rating; ink on a license.
3. Worked at an airline for which first year pay was significantly lower than second year pay (this is a mechanism for subsidizing training costs).

So, without further ado, here's your challenge:


BTW, Scope Out RJs did not take the challenge. Instead, he descended into a series of increasingly profane and irrational rants, most of which were deleted by a moderator.

Sorry my friend I was simply stating a fact.....If you have the type your chance at interview is exponentially higher. Why are you so sensitive about paying for your job?

 

[Skybus]

Candide,

Not exactly what is an "Extreme Moderate" but thanks so much to your wise contributions to this thread. You are EXACTLY on point. BTW how exactly did this and nearly every thread on here get hijacked to this area of discussion? Thought it was about bag fees?

If everyone else on here worried about working hard for THEIR companies as they did worrying about what happens at little ol SWA, they wouldn't have to worry about lil ol SWA.

Bus

A few weeks ago, I confronted Scope Out RJs with the challenge below. Apparently, I need to extend the invitation to johnsonrod, MaxPowers, and General Lee.

I completely agree that as a profession, we need to discourage the practice of pilots paying employers for the right of employment (i.e. PFT). But, if you guys are going to deride fellow pilots for simply investing in their career to bolster their resume, you better not have:

1. Attended a civilian flight school or aviation college. By definition, they cost money. Quite a bit of money, in fact.
2. Paid any money pursuing your CFI, Commercial, MEL, ATP, FEw. etc. These are "ratings", just like a 737 type is a rating; ink on a license.
3. Worked at an airline for which first year pay was significantly lower than second year pay (this is a mechanism for subsidizing training costs).

So, without further ado, here's your challenge:


BTW, Scope Out RJs did not take the challenge. Instead, he descended into a series of increasingly profane and irrational rants, most of which were deleted by a moderator.

 

[Quimby]

First off, thanks for the good wishes, I do hope to get an interview with that certain airline, and move forward from there. As far as you doing what you needed to do to "further" your career, unfortunately you had to do it that way. It's hard to justify that with your extremely profitable company. Respect goes both ways. And guys like my dad would shake his head at guys like you who had to buy their way into a job. Also, I will continue to give my viewpoints when needed. I am impressed with this Delta guy FDJ2, he seems to have very good insight on the SLI process. I suggest you reread his posts.

I don't think anyone on here "needs" your viewpoint.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

I got hired at SWA without the type. I had a choice to accept the job and get my type or decline and go to a regional operation like the Rod for free. It took quite awhile to ponder this decision ( just kidding), I accepted the SWA offer right away. Johnson you really are pitiful, I made the 6000 I spent back in my first six months. So why don't you troll on another thread, you really are sounding like an idiot on this thread. It is obvious you are jealous of SWA.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Johnsonrod, I'm glad Daddy paid for your training, I'm also glad, no scratch that "ecstatic" that I'll probably never have to fly with you.​

My Daddy didn't pay for my flying lessons, Nor did I have to purchase my 737 type or my ATP but that's because I was luckily enough to be the right place at the right time thats all...... I did pay my dues at a regional level for many years and watch a lot of young punks ( and I only use that term for those that had the attitude that they were deserved the job because they took RJ 101 in the college that Daddy also paid for) come a long with little flying experience, sell them selves out (along with our industry) to take much less than standard wages to get that first airline flying job. The point is that we all "pay" our dues one way or another and for you to have such a chip on your shoulder about SWA's requirement for a 737 type (AFTER being made an offer for employment) shows a real lack of maturity. And to answer your question buying an ATP or multi engine rating to put on your certificate IS no different than a specific type, there are a huge amount of corporate positions that will not entertain your thoughts of flying for them if you are not typed in the equipment they operate. I'm sure you & Daddy think all those pilots are sell outs too, right?. I'm sorry that Daddy won't pay for your 737 type, I'm starting to believe thats the real "angst" of your problems! Good luck getting out of your current flying "rut", and please seek professional therapy if you need it before you carry your grief into the cockpit. Good luck.

 

[Captzaahlie]

That is correct Rod, that is what I was trying to say. Airtran cost SWA $1.4 billion, and will cost them more when Southwest has to increase the pay for each Airtran employee to match their counterparts at Southwest. That Low Cost Operation won't be so low cost soon. Add higher oil prices, and I see extra fees sneaking in to Southwest's game plan, and a bunch of one time charges in the future.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Outright owning your aircraft (as in the case of SWA) has to be much more cost effective than leasing them don't 'cha think?
All the other costs are the same variables that each airline pays......
Capturing so much of the market share, more than covers good pilot wages.
Just my quick 2 cents worth of opinion.

 

[johnsonrod]

I don't think anyone on here "needs" your viewpoint.

You actually NEED to reread FDJ2's viewpoints. I hear he actually DOES know a lot about how SLIs work. Do it.