Southwest Buyout of Morris Air

[shon7]

Southwests Buyout of Morris Air

How were the seniority lists combined when Southwest bought out Morris Air. Was it like the AA/TWA merger where the TWA pilots were stapled to the bottom?

How was the transition handled -- and was it completely "smooth?"

 

[CSY Mon]

"AA/TWA merger where the TWA pilots were stapled to the bottom?"

Wrong info, the TWA guys did not get stapled to the bottom.
The senior guys got intergrated with a rate of 1 to 7.1 or so, starting about 2500 numbers from the top.
Some 1300 junior guys got stapled, but AA kept on hireing 100 @ month after the deal, so the most junior guys on the list, up to 9/11 were AA pilots....Then the furloughs began and is still going on.
Total of 2450 pilots on the street, a good mix of former TWA and AA pilots.



The TWA F/As however got stapled.

 

[80drvr]

Re: Southwests Buyout of Morris Air

How were the seniority lists combined when Southwest bought out Morris Air. Was it like the AA/TWA merger where the TWA pilots were stapled to the bottom?

How was the transition handled -- and was it completely "smooth?"

I believe they were offered interviews.

 

[chase]

Morris Transition

Morris had about 200 pilots who came to SWA. As of the effective date of the merger ALL pilots were added to the seniority list at that date, no merging, simple. At the time there was gnashing of teeth but in hindsight the thought by many of them is they were handled smoothly. I flew with one of the Morris guys the other day & they said SWA did an excellent job during the 1 year probation period of weeding the folks that the Morris guys wished they hadn't hired in the first place. I believe the date was around a 1 Jan timeframe but can't remember the year, I believe '92ish or thereabout. I don't have my seniority list in front of me, sorry,

 

[swaforme]

Well there was a little more to it than that.

The 200 or so pilots were stapled to the bottom of the list. While most of them were relatively happy to be at the bottom of our list, there were a substantial number that thought it was not fair and a law suit resulted. The suit was directed at SWA as well as SWAPA. The Morris pilots lost in court. They were chased around afterward to reimburse the union for court costs of about $150,000. In the interest of getting along the union finally forgave the money if the remaining Morris pilots joined the union and began paying dues, which up to that point they had refused.

This is my understanding of what occurred. To the best of my knowledge.

I have flown with several Morris pilots and even the ones that were involved in the lawsuit seem pretty happy now.

Also there were 72 Morris pilots on the list that had at one point or another been turned down by SWA for employment. There were also 3 or so that I know of that had been fired by SWA.

 

[holdon]

"AA/TWA merger where the TWA pilots were stapled to the bottom?"

Wrong info, the TWA guys did not get stapled to the bottom.
The senior guys got intergrated with a rate of 1 to 7.1 or so, starting about 2500 numbers from the top.
Some 1300 junior guys got stapled, but AA kept on hireing 100 @ month after the deal, so the most junior guys on the list, up to 9/11 were AA pilots....Then the furloughs began and is still going on.
Total of 2450 pilots on the street, a good mix of former TWA and AA pilots.



The TWA F/As however got stapled.

Now, Now Let's not get into a TWA/AA merger debate. By the way your info is wrong. Some 1300 junior guys got stapled and then they took the rest and "weaved" them in from the BOTTOM at a ratio of 8:1 and the senior guys that resulted in a 2500 ish number on the AA list will be retired within a couple of years if not already. One of my best friends was a B727, MD80, and B717 Captain there 15 years and is on the street now! Lucky to have had a job right?

"Total of 2450 pilots on the street, a good mix of former TWA and AA piltos"


My A$$, try 98% TWA people (furlough fodder, remember?) and the rest of the AA guys that had been there less than 2 years

 

[CSY Mon]

"My A$$, try 98% TWA people (furlough fodder, remember?) and the rest of the AA guys that had been there less than 2 years"

98% TWA???

Wrong, my best guestimate is 1300 TWA and 1150 AA pilots on the street....and more AA pilots to follow in the fall.
Like I said, a good mix.

Less than 2 years?

Try 3 years and more.

Your TWA buddy may not have had a job at all if AA did not buy that mess before it self destructed.

The TWA guys was just minuttes away from saying:

Would you like fries with that Sir?

Those who are now flying for AA got a good payrise and kept their pay-seniority from TWA.

Don't blame AA for 9/11......

At any rate, a bit of topic as the question was really about Morris Air and Southwest.

Perhaps there is another thread on the AA/TWA issue?
If so, I would be happy to come over there and keep the discussion going.

 

[flyndesk]

Argh! Do not hijack this thread...

Yeah, the Morris guys were all "stapled" at the bottom. All are captains now. Their date of hire was in 1994 or so? Most are really terrific, I know of one that is a check airman now. And I, too, know that at least 2 were previously fired from SWA, then went to Morris. It was kind of a sticky point when the buyout happened, since SWA didn't want to take them back. But they did. Not sure at what cost?

My understanding of the whole thing was.... Morris was operating as a "travel agency", but really as an air carrier without a certificate. Delta was upset by it, and forced them to get the certificate. Then, June Morris personally asked Herb to buy the airline portion. It worked for Herb, getting SLC and starting expansion in the west.

I think everyone is drinking the koolaid now and things are hunky-dorey. They are "family."

 

[ivauir]

I have also flown with a couple of Morris Air guys (both great guys) and they both confirmed that not everything was "peas and carrots" in the beginning but they are happy with how it is now. The unofficial word on the street is that the merger was too hard on the company's culture and we'll never do one again. When you consider that Morris was a perfect target for SWA (some would say that was in fact the bussiness plan of Morris from the start) and the trouble they did have (expecially in mgt) it seems likely there will be no more mergers.

 

[pylut]

"Try 3 years and more."

Wow 3 whole years!!!!
And what allowed him to get to 3 years you ask???
The 15 year TWA captains getting furloughed in his stead.
You know what else that 15 year captain never got a thank you from the junior SNB either, All he got was attitude from a twerp!!

 

[flyingitalian]

Although the Morris pilots were put on the bottom of the list the captains were pay protected until their pay rates reached parity.

 

[JJGMADDOG]

"Your TWA buddy may not have had a job at all if AA did not buy that mess before it self destructed."


And you my friend would not have replacement aircraft for you sh&*%tty F100's hadn't not been for TWA. And we know full well what would have happened to those pilots....instead they get to go to STL to fly an MD80 and get a pay raise out of they deal.



Oh yea, one more thing...an 88' hire at TWA is hardly junior.

Have a nice day...please drive through!!!

 

[CSY Mon]

JJ:

So we both agree then that it was a huge mistake for AA to buy TWA?

$750 mill for the Titanic just as she was sinking....

As for the seniority issue, look at what the Morris Air guys got:
The bottom of the list.

 

[SWAdude]

Although the Morris pilots were put on the bottom of the list the captains were pay protected until their pay rates reached parity.

That is incorrect sir. They received something around 3rd year fo pay when they hit the property.

The truth is that at first all the pilots were to be given interviews. The company at first didn't want the pilots. It wasn't until SWAPA and a few of the morris pilots got together and discussed the details and SWAPA went to the company and requested all the pilots come on board at the bottom of the list.

Morris had only been around as Morris for about a year and a half when SWA bought out the airline.

SWAdude

 

[flyingitalian]

That is incorrect sir. They received something around 3rd year fo pay when they hit the property.

Sorry, you are simply wrong on this fact. The Captains were pay protected at their rate at Morris until they reached parity. Ask around I know this for a fact.