Southeast Airlines closes doors

[Ty Webb]

There are more than just one. Valujet was a prime example.

Hmmm. Since you're so into assumptions, let me make one here:

No US carrier would employ your ignorant ass, so you are now flying the proverbial rubber dogsh!t into Hong Kong . . . . Wait, make that warming the seat in cruise, while someone else actually flys the rubber dogsh!t into Hong Kong.

 

[Angus]

Pot/Kettle/Black

Is this airline safe?


Cathay Denies Cover-Up in Returned Flight

Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. acknowledged Saturday that one of its London-bound flights was forced to turn back to Hong Kong in September with engine trouble, but denied there has been a cover-up amid a spate of similar incidents in recent weeks.

A newspaper accused Hong Kong-based Cathay - one of Asia's largest airlines - of failing to report the Sept. 5 incident, in which flight CX 251 carrying 382 passengers turned back to Hong Kong's airport about two hours after take off because the pilot detected trouble with one of the engines and shut it off.

A Cathay spokeswoman confirmed Saturday that the airline's investigation found that the Boeing 747-400 jet had experienced trouble because there was a crack on its fuel exhaust pipe, causing it to leak oil.

The Oriental Daily News quoted the mother of one of the passengers, identified only as Mrs. Kwan, as complaining that her son was terrified by the incident and that she was dissatisfied that Cathay did not publicize it.

The spokeswoman, Carolyn Leung, denied the company had tried to cover-up the incident, saying there was no need to make public the event because the flight had landed safely and the safety of the passengers had never been compromised.

Leung said Cathay had reported the incident to Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department, which ordered the airline to inspect all of its 24 Boeing 747-400 jets.

The company found problems with the fuel exhaust pipes of 27 engines and has repaired or replaced them, Leung said.

In recent weeks, there were at least three similar incidents where Cathay was forced to abort a flight because of engine problems.

The latest involved flight CX751 carrying 362 people from Bangkok, Thailand to Bombay, India.

The Boeing 777-300 returned to Bangkok on Wednesday after a chunk of its engine broke off and hit the ground, smashing into a car. But no casualties were reported.

Last month, one of Cathay's Hong Kong-bound flights returned to Los Angeles after witnesses reported seeing flames on one of its engines.

Leung said the company is still investigating the three incidents and has no further details.

 

[Cathay747400]

Wow!

Well, I guess I have been told. I am going to make some assumptions here myself. FL717, TyWebb abd Climbhappy are all or were Valujet/Air Tran people. So first let me clarify that I don't think most would disagree that Valujet was a bad and unreputable operation. I'd like to see you explain to the families of the people on the everglades flight your point. I HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT AIR TRAN AT ALL. In fact I received a private message asking me about Air Tran because the person assumed I was talking about them. I in fact said No, I was NOT talking about Air Tran. I was hired by Air Tran 4 years ago and went to another carrier that went out of business. I only did this because of a possible merger between that carrier and a major. Obviously did not happen and I regret saying No to Air Tran.

Now, I don't attack people personAlly on this forum as it is beneath me. I try to inform people about Cathay and air out some issues like everyone else on this board. Just to blow off steam. The 3 of you, named above, are ridiculous to attack me personally over what your percieve I said. Again, nothing against Air Tran. I find it funny that your comments on this board attack my professionalism but what does it say about you. You can disagree with me but to attack me personally??? YOU JACKASSES, GO FUUK YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cathay747400]

Oh Boy here we go!!!!!!!!

Let's start posting media clips that create mass hysteria. All I will say is that no-one has been injured or killed. We do not know the cause of all these events but to just print sensetionalized media clips is just complete ignorance.

This forum and some of the people on it are getting quite frankly childish and I won't be brought down to some of your levels. I am going to delete my profile because this is getting like the old AOL board where poeple just start attacking each other instead of having mature disagreements. I know now why I don't work for a U.S. commany anymore because man there are a lot of horses asses out there. Ciao.

 

[habubuaza]

Well, I guess I have been told. I am going to make some assumptions here myself. FL717, TyWebb abd Climbhappy are all or were Valujet/Air Tran people. So first let me clarify that I don't think most would disagree that Valujet was a bad and unreputable operation. I'd like to see you explain to the families of the people on the everglades flight your point. I HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT AIR TRAN AT ALL. In fact I received a private message asking me about Air Tran because the person assumed I was talking about them. I in fact said No, I was NOT talking about Air Tran. I was hired by Air Tran 4 years ago and went to another carrier that went out of business. I only did this because of a possible merger between that carrier and a major. Obviously did not happen and I regret saying No to Air Tran.

Now, I don't attack people personAlly on this forum as it is beneath me. I try to inform people about Cathay and air out some issues like everyone else on this board. Just to blow off steam. The 3 of you, named above, are ridiculous to attack me personally over what your percieve I said. Again, nothing against Air Tran. I find it funny that your comments on this board attack my professionalism but what does it say about you. You can disagree with me but to attack me personally??? YOU JACKASSES, GO FUUK YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Lord. Let me put on my helmet here. OK I agree with Cathay 74 to a certain extent. I've also noticed that many, not all but many of the Airtran pilots like to make rebuttals personal. I don't know why but you do. I mean you guys really do and to me that raises a flag. There's good bad and ugly in every airline and there will be times when you have to defend your company's position but it shouldn't resort to personal attacks against a fellow aviator. There is nothing wrong with flying for a foreign carrier. I know many pilots who went overseas and had very satisfying careers and made lots of money and were able to send their children to universities of their choice and had world class health insurance for their entire family. So it's not fair to go after someone just because they fly for a foreign carrier. That's a little bit ignorant. I know that Air Tran is doing very well at this moment. I do understand what Cathay 74 was trying to say in his previous post and I don't think it was a diss on Airtran but a point he was trying to make against a former underling of Frank Lorenzo.

I don't know much about Joe Leonard right now perhaps someone would like to do some research on him and report it back to the board. How has his relationship been with Frank Lorenzo post Eastern Airlines? Does he still communicate with Lorenzo? Has he completely turned over a new leaf, so far he has been fairly successful with Airtran. So I don't know. Anyway guys try to keep this stuff civil. Your professionalism shouldn't end once you step out of the cockpit.

 

[FL717]

Well, I guess I have been told. I am going to make some assumptions here myself. FL717, TyWebb abd Climbhappy are all or were Valujet/Air Tran people. So first let me clarify that I don't think most would disagree that Valujet was a bad and unreputable operation. I'd like to see you explain to the families of the people on the everglades flight your point.

Once again... your assumptions are what is your problem. I NEVER worked for Valujet, so you are wrong.

I also do not believe that Valujet was a "bad and unreputable operation". You are ignorant to the Valujet operation so once again you are wrong.

As far as your assinine, insensitive, boorish comment seeing me "explin to the families of the people on the everglades flight" anything, why don't you ask any Pilot from ANY airline on this forum to explain to the families of the thousands that have been killed in their respective airline accidents. Thank you for proving to us that in fact MY assumption about you was/is correct.

I HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT AIR TRAN AT ALL. In fact I received a private message asking me about Air Tran because the person assumed I was talking about them. I in fact said No, I was NOT talking about Air Tran. I was hired by Air Tran 4 years ago and went to another carrier that went out of business. I only did this because of a possible merger between that carrier and a major. Obviously did not happen and I regret saying No to Air Tran.

I never said you did. Your guilt getting to you? Let me just add that I do not regret you saying no to AirTran.

Now, I don't attack people personAlly on this forum as it is beneath me. I try to inform people about Cathay and air out some issues like everyone else on this board. Just to blow off steam. The 3 of you, named above, are ridiculous to attack me personally over what your percieve I said. Again, nothing against Air Tran. I find it funny that your comments on this board attack my professionalism but what does it say about you. You can disagree with me but to attack me personally??? YOU JACKASSES, GO FUUK YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!

You did in fact insult and attack people here. YOU started by just having to get a little dig in about Southeast, in spite of the fact they are gone, and MANY more GREAT pilots that had found refuge there the last few years are on the street again.

You did in fact insult and attack people here by bring up the everglades crash, and expecting anyone on this forum to defend a crash to family survivors. That is real sh!tty and classless.

Believe me.... we all can see quite clearly here who fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[FL717]

Oh Lord. Let me put on my helmet here. OK I agree with Cathay 74 to a certain extent. I've also noticed that many, not all but many of the Airtran pilots like to make rebuttals personal. I don't know why but you do. I mean you guys really do and to me that raises a flag. There's good bad and ugly in every airline and there will be times when you have to defend your company's position but it shouldn't resort to personal attacks against a fellow aviator. There is nothing wrong with flying for a foreign carrier. I know many pilots who went overseas and had very satisfying careers and made lots of money and were able to send their children to universities of their choice and had world class health insurance for their entire family. So it's not fair to go after someone just because they fly for a foreign carrier. That's a little bit ignorant. I know that Air Tran is doing very well at this moment. I do understand what Cathay 74 was trying to say in his previous post and I don't think it was a diss on Airtran but a point he was trying to make against a former underling of Frank Lorenzo.

I don't know much about Joe Leonard right now perhaps someone would like to do some research on him and report it back to the board. How has his relationship been with Frank Lorenzo post Eastern Airlines? Does he still communicate with Lorenzo? Has he completely turned over a new leaf, so far he has been fairly successful with Airtran. So I don't know. Anyway guys try to keep this stuff civil. Your professionalism shouldn't end once you step out of the cockpit.

Responding to someone for making assinine comments does not suddenly make one unprofessional. Holding a mirror in front of the face of a boorish person, does not make the holder unprofessional. Working for a foreign carrier, generating revenue for a foreign entity, all the while bad mothing people working for AMERICAN companies, is low budget.

Taking a swipe at Southeast, Valujet, and bringing airline accident victim families into the fight isn't unprofessional... it IS lowlife, ignorant, selfish, insensitive behavior.....period.

YOU dragging in Frank Lorenzo, Joe Leonard, and all the rest of your irrelevant post is also quite questionable.

I'm done. Some of you are just trolls... plain and simple, and I will occasionally take the time point that out to you, because you probably don't even know it.

Bu-bye!!!!

 

[Cathay747400]

One last response to FL717

A-hole, I Did Not Start The Thread On Southeast. If You Go Around This Board There Are Loads Of People Saying Things About A Lot Of Carriers Do You Make It A Habit Of Attacking Everyone That You Disagree With Personally. You Work For A Good Company And Have A Good Job. What The Fuuk Is Your Deal Man? You Need Prozack And Help. It Scares Me That You Are In The Cokpit Of A Modern Jet With The Way You Handle Things. I Have Never Witnessed Anyone Like You. You Could Have Done This With A Private E-mail But Want To Start A Fight With Me In A Public Forum. I Have No Idea Who You Are, I Have Not Attacked Your Employer Or Anyone Else. I Have Said Nothing Different Than A Lot Of Others Have Not Said. What Is Your Beef With Me? Dude, Take A Vacation Man. Drink Heavily And Get Laid. Man O' Man. Now I Am Through. Post Whatever You Want.

 

[FL717]

Scary, scary, scary

A-hole, I Did Not Start The Thread On Southeast. If You Go Around This Board There Are Loads Of People Saying Things About A Lot Of Carriers Do You Make It A Habit Of Attacking Everyone That You Disagree With Personally. You Work For A Good Company And Have A Good Job. What The Fuuk Is Your Deal Man? You Need Prozack And Help. It Scares Me That You Are In The Cokpit Of A Modern Jet With The Way You Handle Things. I Have Never Witnessed Anyone Like You. You Could Have Done This With A Private E-mail But Want To Start A Fight With Me In A Public Forum. I Have No Idea Who You Are, I Have Not Attacked Your Employer Or Anyone Else. I Have Said Nothing Different Than A Lot Of Others Have Not Said. What Is Your Beef With Me? Dude, Take A Vacation Man. Drink Heavily And Get Laid. Man O' Man. Now I Am Through. Post Whatever You Want.

LOL!! I got your private message. I have been very explicit as to "what my beef is with you". The fact you have to still ask that tells me that you are not bothering to comprehend the posts here, so why bother.

Actually.... my posts have been very concerted, coherent, and factual rebukes to your ridiculous "assumptions". I also believe my responses are quite a stark contrast to your raving responses. Now, it is apparent from your "last response" that you have in fact lost YOUR cool..... on a message forum no less. LOL!

I need you to to follow these steps very carefully:

Breathe deep.....
Breathe deep.....
Aaaahhhhmmmmm.....
Aaaahhhhmmmmm....

All better????

 

[wheelsup]

There is another place almost as bad that needs to shutdown and is run by another industry misfit, that had a big crash in a DC9 years ago and killed a bunch of people, they know who they are, but so far they keep going some how.

I HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT AIR TRAN AT ALL. In fact I received a private message asking me about Air Tran because the person assumed I was talking about them. I in fact said No, I was NOT talking about Air Tran.

So, who exactly were you talking about in your first post? I think people assuming you're talking about Airtran aren't off base.

~wheelsup

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

So, who exactly were you talking about in your first post? I think people assuming you're talking about Airtran aren't off base.

~wheelsup

That's exactly who he was talking about. It's obvious to everyone. Then when someone calls him on it or defends their company, he goes off the deep end, doing exactly to them what he is accusing others of doing. Talk about a whacko.

 

[Cathay747400]

Read The Post

Is run by another industry misfit... There were a number of people involved in the start-up and subsequent operation of Valujet. Most of you might not know whom I'm even talking about but if I may describe one incident... The flight crew noticed that the Horiz trim wasn't working. Maint went out and found out something was wrong (jackscrew perhaps) That mech told the D.O.M that it was broke, the D.O.M in turn said no it is not and told the mech to sign it off. The mech refused the F/O then walked off the plane. The mech reported the incident to the new quality control manager and said that the D.O.M was regularly pencil whipping **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** off. The mech was subsequently fired for insubordination. He wrote the pres of the airline to fix the problem. I complained to the pres as well. Intitially, he was ignored until he said he was going to the FAA. He was hired back oddly enough, told to drop the case, he said no, so they fired him again. I asked the D.O.M about the incident. He said he was getting pressure from the pres to "keep the airplanes flying". Is that enough of a story.

Do people have to die before something gets done. Look like it. There were a series of bad events at Valujet before the glades crash. I am not making this up, fires, blown tires etc... People died before something was finally done. I am sorry FL717, Valujet was an unsafe and dangerous operation PERIOD... IT IS DOCUMENTED...

All I said was there is another operation that needs to shut down, that is all I said. I will not name them because of the employees there. It is not there fault, just like SE. I also said Southeast was an unsafe operation. So all that I have read and heard about SE is not at all true then? Go read willflyforfood.com, and talk to some of their people about what went on there. I did not attack an employee or employee group. FL717 YOU SIR ARE WRONG HERE. You are misinterpreting what it is I am saying.

Again, I did not start the Southeast thread nor any other thread about some questionable carriers. You act like these things never happen. They do and A LOT. I am embarrased about this pissing contest I have gotten into over something I did not start. FL717, you can disagree with me all day and all night, I have no problem with that. But to come out of the box and attack me personally without getting the facts first quite frankly is ludicrous. All you had to do was ask.

FL717, I will not contine this banter with someone like you. YOU ARE VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and are insulting and have blatant disregard for others. You are an angry individual who takes things personally and does not seek the fact prior to reacting. Your attacks on my character and employer are without merit and I am offened personally and professionally by you. You do exactly the same thing I do for a living but have total disregard for people. I find it offenisve that you are even in the same business and I find it offensive that you are even a human being. I wish you the best in your life as YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES. I believe the moderator should put you in the penalty box but he is obvilously busy.

I have requested to have my profile removed. I hope that I have explained myself now.

 

[IAHERJ]

Hmmmm,,

Did I leave the iron on?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Man....some people have a hard time controlling them selves at the keyboard. I can only imagine what goes on in an airplane.

 

[DonVerita]

Cathay 74 is absolutely correct when posting about the downright SCARY practices that went on at Southeast.

Pilot training was abysmal, maintenance quality control was virtually non-existent. The FAA had them on permanent surviellance. Crews were constantly flying fatigued due to the Company not caring one bit about safety of flight. Airplanes were old, rundown, dirty and hot. You should have seen the cockpits of the DC-9's they had. Straight out of a nightmare. Not the nice upkept ones like NWA has...no these were decrepit in every sense of the word. And how do I know this you may ask. I was there, albeit briefly until I was able to escape that prison.

Here's a few more tidbits you won't hear about in the mainstream media:

1. DC-9 taking off from FLL. Loses an engine enroute. Starts heading towards PIE to land (their maintenance home base). Crew decides to land at TPA (shortest distance FAA thing and all that). They land sucessfully. D.O. calls both pilots into his office; one would think to congratulate them. NO. They get ripped up one side and down the other for landing at TPA. Why? Southeast owed beaucoup money to the Tampa Airport Authority for previous unpaid bills. Tampa impounded the aircraft.

2. Flying another p.o.s DC-9 from either EWR or ABE (can't remember) to Florida. Flight full with those industry leading $59 bucket fares of theirs. SE doesn't have Part 121 full fledged Dispatchers. They have Flight Followers. No sharing of responsibility with a F.F. It is on the Capt. all the way. Half way through the flight, the crew figures out they don't have enough fuel to make it to destination. They land at ORF and sit for 3 hours because nothing has been arranged. Passengers revolt.

3. Capt. is told by D.O. to take a flight even though it is overweight. D.O says they have new numbers. Capt. wants a fax sent. D.O. screams at him on the phone saying, NO. Capt. refuses flight. Capt. gets fired the next day. Capt. takes SE to court and wins.

4. F/O does walkaround of a MD80 they are picking up from the graveyard. One of the tires is shredded. He finds out later this is due to a malfunctioning brake assembly. F/O tells Capt. Capt. who is a former scab decides to go anyway. It's a short hop from Orlando Sanford to PIE. They write it up in PIE. A few days later the same F/O is flying a different airplane and notices the same brake assembly. Calls out the crack maintenance team. "Oh...well the brake assembly on your plane needed to be replaced and we didn't have any new or refurbished ones in stock so we gave you this one". So they go. During takeoff or landing (don't remember which) they get a "Wheel Lockup" light. The faulty brake assembly shredded that tire too.

So when some say, "They never killed anybody"; it would only have been a matter of time before they did.

Yes...Southeast Airlines should have been shut down by the FAA a long time ago for shoddy maintenance, shoddy pilot training or lack thereof, and endangering the public.

Yesterday a Tampa news station had video of former SE employees picketing the very expensive home of Southeast owner Thomas Kaufenbach in the posh St. Pete area known as Tierra Verde. Sorry there is no video link to it, but you can see the short text recap with photos below:

www.baynews9.com/content/36/2004/12/5/64052.html

 

[FLB717]

I just want everyone to notice I didn't get in the yelling match, for once it wasn't me, it was the other FL717. LMAO

 

[habubuaza]

Who to believe, who to believe, who to believe!!

http://www.flyseal.com/

http://www.unitedbank.com/SouthEast.htm