Somethings up at ASA

[ohplease!]

What do you say about the guys that have come from other airlines that are better off than ASA and want to improve things here?

Are we the worst? No, but we have much to improve on, don't you think?

Hell, there must be some reason you went out and got a 737 type rating, right?????

who came to ASA from a "better" airline? and why? and which airline would be "better"?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

We have plenty of furloughed guys from XJET that never went back, as well as guys that worked at ACA while they were a regional. From talking to those guys, ASA is run poorly compared to those places.

 

[ohplease!]

We have plenty of furloughed guys from XJET that never went back, as well as guys that worked at ACA while they were a regional. From talking to those guys, ASA is run poorly compared to those places.

Xjet might be run better (I have no idea, if its REALLY that much better, why would they have not gone back? quick upgrade? bigger planes? better hub??? I'm not feelin' it..) but, ACA?????maybe you need another cup of coffee.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I only said ACA as a regional, (I knew you'd jump on that one) I know what happened to them as Indy. But I have heard a few of them talk about how ACA had better work rules and relationaships among management and it's pilot group.

As far as XJET, they furloughed right after 9/11 and didn't recall for close to a year I think?????? Many of those guys came to ASA, which didn't furlough and was still hiring. By the time recalls were offered, many people didn't think ASA was worth leaving to go back to the bottom of the seniority list, first year pay still, etc.

Hind sight, you know.

 

[ohplease!]

I only said ACA as a regional, I know what happened to them as Indy. But I have heard a few of them talk about how ACA had better work rules and relationaships among management and it's pilot group.

As far as XJET, they furloughed right after 9/11 and didn't recall for close to a year I think?????? Many of those guys came to ASA, which didn't furlough and was still hiring. By the time recalls were offered, many people didn't think ASA was worth leaving to go back to the bottom of the seniority list, first year pay still, etc.

Hind sight, you know.

I hear ya'. I know there are some things at other places that may be more pilot friendly. There always will be and some things here will be better than at other places. I just get tired of hearing how great things are everywhere but ASA. How terrible it is to work here. Well, BS. All I can say to them is, if its soooo bad, get the f'k out and go be happy. Lifes too short. Ya' know?

 

[amcnd]

It's more like 70 newhires a month 40 E120 and 30RJ!!

 

[Crash Pad]

Ok back to the thread. Tell me if I have this right. Huge growth out of LA with no hub. Contract settled by Christmas. GO closing.

Can I raise everyone an unknown amount of CAL 70 seat turboprop flying?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I hear ya'. I know there are some things at other places that may be more pilot friendly. There always will be and some things here will be better than at other places. I just get tired of hearing how great things are everywhere but ASA. How terrible it is to work here. Well, BS. All I can say to them is, if its soooo bad, get the f'k out and go be happy. Lifes too short. Ya' know?

I agree that there are many places that are worse off than we are, but I am focussed on making ASA better than it currently is. I probably come across like ASA is the worst place ever (which it isn't) but it's due more to the fact that I believe the potential of this company is great. We are just hamstrung by our leaders who are complacent with the status quo. Being at or near the bottom of DOT charts month-in and month-out should not be acceptable, but yet we have been this way for YEARS.

 

[Grassstrippilot]

But I have heard a few of them talk about how ACA had better work rules...

I'll verify that, as I sit here shaking my head in disbelief of this jacked up schedule scheduling has given me for the next 4 days. They say they are short on FOs, yet they put me in a hotel on a 8:30 hour "layover" in SLC today, followed by almost another 7 hour "layover" tomorrow. All so they can avoid releasing me and giving me domicile rest. Pretty jacked up.

The work rules here suck, are out dated, and I sure hope they have fixed them in the next contract.

 

[Tomct]

I hear ya'. I know there are some things at other places that may be more pilot friendly. There always will be and some things here will be better than at other places. I just get tired of hearing how great things are everywhere but ASA. How terrible it is to work here. Well, BS. All I can say to them is, if its soooo bad, get the f'k out and go be happy. Lifes too short. Ya' know?

Oh Cheese, you need to SHUT IT!! You are one of those that will be so happy when we get a NEW and BETTER contract. And yet, you STILL sound like a mgmnt TROLL! Get out from underneath BL's desk and hit the line you P3cker!!

 

[ohplease!]

Oh Cheese, you need to SHUT IT!! You are one of those that will be so happy when we get a NEW and BETTER contract. And yet, you STILL sound like a mgmnt TROLL! Get out from underneath BL's desk and hit the line you P3cker!!

Oh Man! you are so cool!

 

[Tomct]

:laugh:I know!!!

 

[XPOO]

From what I can tell, SkyWest will be acquiring 6 new -700s. The last time aircraft were swapped or taken from other airlines the tail numbers were kept. Recently 862AS-866AS, 869AS, 910EV, 912EV, 913EV and 915EV. All being flown by SkyWest. The tails on the 6 new -700s are 609SK, 611SK, 613SK-616SK. This leads me to believe that ASA will not be losing any aircraft they currently have. But that's just my two cents worth.

 

[Tomct]

From what I can tell, SkyWest will be acquiring 6 new -700s. The last time aircraft were swapped or taken from other airlines the tail numbers were kept. Recently 862AS-866AS, 869AS, 910EV, 912EV, 913EV and 915EV. All being flown by SkyWest. The tails on the 6 new -700s are 609SK, 611SK, 613SK-616SK. This leads me to believe that ASA will not be losing any aircraft they currently have. But that's just my two cents worth.

Those 50 swaps were for a whole different ball of wax. As far as I'm concerned....Take the 70's, I could care less!! It will cost JA a lot more than what we are asking for if/when we shut ATL DOWN!!!

 

[Willy21]

From what I can tell, SkyWest will be acquiring 6 new -700s. The last time aircraft were swapped or taken from other airlines the tail numbers were kept. Recently 862AS-866AS, 869AS, 910EV, 912EV, 913EV and 915EV. All being flown by SkyWest. The tails on the 6 new -700s are 609SK, 611SK, 613SK-616SK. This leads me to believe that ASA will not be losing any aircraft they currently have. But that's just my two cents worth.

I heard from the Fed in charge of the EMB-120 Skywest is getting more 70's but they are not coming from ASA. You post makes his statement hold a little water.

 

[SuperKooter]

Lets just hope the ASA Mec takes a step back and drops that greedy proposal so ASA can get some more A/C and upgrade more than 10 people in the next 6 months.

 

[Snapperhead]

Scab: Someone who puts his family before a corrupt union.

SuperKooter Scab Wannabe...please read this article: http://london.sonoma.edu/Writings/WarOfTheClasses/scab.html

Your perception about life seems very distorted. If you happened to be alive back when that article was written, you might have survived the beatings. Later days SuperScabber.

 

[SuperKooter]

Oakland Socialist Party Local

Yeah no thanks, I'd rather be a scab than a commie. I come before u

 

[BobbyBiplane]

SuperKooter Scab Wannabe...please read this article: http://london.sonoma.edu/Writings/WarOfTheClasses/scab.html

Your perception about life seems very distorted. If you happened to be alive back when that article was written, you might have survived the beatings. Later days SuperScabber.

Read the entire speech.

"But, for scabbing, no blame attaches itself anywhere. With rare exceptions, all the people in the world are scabs. The strong, capable workman gets a job and holds it because of his strength and capacity. And he holds it because out of his strength and capacity he gives a better value for his wage than does the weaker and less capable workman. Therefore he is scabbing upon his weaker and less capable brother workman. He is giving more value for the price paid by the employer.(emphasis mine)"

Jack London, more than most, fully understood the competitive nature of man.

Bob
(Ph.D. Dissertation on the writings of London)

 

[Snapperhead]

Read the entire speech.

"But, for scabbing, no blame attaches itself anywhere. With rare exceptions, all the people in the world are scabs. The strong, capable workman gets a job and holds it because of his strength and capacity. And he holds it because out of his strength and capacity he gives a better value for his wage than does the weaker and less capable workman. Therefore he is scabbing upon his weaker and less capable brother workman. He is giving more value for the price paid by the employer.(emphasis mine)"

Jack London, more than most, fully understood the competitive nature of man.

Bob
(Ph.D. Dissertation on the writings of London)

I ask if you have read the whole speech Bobby? Jack London did understand the competitive nature of man. He states at the end, "It is not in the nature of present-day society for men to give like for like, the same for the same. And so long as men continue to live in this competitive society, struggling tooth and nail with one another for food and shelter, (which is to struggle tooth and nail with one another for life), that long will the scab continue to exist. His will "to live" will force him to exist. He may be flouted and jeered by his brothers, he may be beaten with bricks and clubs by the men who by superior strength and capacity scab upon him as he scabs upon them by longer hours and smaller wages, but through it all he will persist, giving a bit more of most for least than they are giving.

Don't be fooled though; Mr. London's view of a scab (which I happen to agree with) lay in these words: http://dawn.thot.net/scab.html

I'm sure you will not agree with me; but, to say you will cross a picket line in order to put food on the table is bordering on idiosy. The reason I say this is the irony of it all. You are willing to cross the picket line while your fellow workers are on strike in order to feed your family, yet at the same time you're taking away food from the people you work with. Think about it. Later

 

[JoeMerchant]

SuperKooter Scab Wannabe...please read this article: http://london.sonoma.edu/Writings/WarOfTheClasses/scab.html

Your perception about life seems very distorted. If you happened to be alive back when that article was written, you might have survived the beatings. Later days SuperScabber.

Does it apply to ALPA committee chairmen and ALPA MEC Chairmen that crossed the Eastern picket line?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I ask if you have read the whole speech Bobby? Jack London did understand the competitive nature of man. He states at the end, "It is not in the nature of present-day society for men to give like for like, the same for the same. And so long as men continue to live in this competitive society, struggling tooth and nail with one another for food and shelter, (which is to struggle tooth and nail with one another for life), that long will the scab continue to exist. His will "to live" will force him to exist. He may be flouted and jeered by his brothers, he may be beaten with bricks and clubs by the men who by superior strength and capacity scab upon him as he scabs upon them by longer hours and smaller wages, but through it all he will persist, giving a bit more of most for least than they are giving.

Don't be fooled though; Mr. London's view of a scab (which I happen to agree with) lay in these words: http://dawn.thot.net/scab.html

I'm sure you will not agree with me; but, to say you will cross a picket line in order to put food on the table is bordering on idiosy. The reason I say this is the irony of it all. You are willing to cross the picket line while your fellow workers are on strike in order to feed your family, yet at the same time you're taking away food from the people you work with. Think about it. Later

Snapperhead,
Does that apply to ALPA committee chairmen and ALPA MEC Chairmen who crossed the Eastern picket line? If so, how does ALPA justify it? Does ALPA make exceptions if it is best for ALPA? How is that different than a person who does it for their best interests?

 

[Snapperhead]

Snapperhead,
Does that apply to ALPA committee chairmen and ALPA MEC Chairmen who crossed the Eastern picket line? If so, how does ALPA justify it? Does ALPA make exceptions if it is best for ALPA? How is that different than a person who does it for their best interests?

Can you tell me his name (initials)? My post was for Bobby whats his face, if he'll reply.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Can you tell me his name (initials)? My post was for Bobby whats his face, if he'll reply.

I'll PM you. We aren't allowed to identify them here.

 

[Willy21]

JM
You need to find out the true story. He is a very humble guy that made a mistake when he was younger. He is now working his butt off to make your job easier. If you really have a problem with him you need to go have a face to face with him. He would probably give you the time of day and tell you his story. Maybe you could learn form him how to be humble about your past decisions and offer your time and ability to make ASA a better place. To me it just looks like you want to tear it apart because you didn't get your way. Whatever you decide to do is up to you, but in my eyesight he is trying to be are part of the sollution and you, well I can't understand what you are trying to do.

 

[atrdriver]

Snapperhead,
Does that apply to ALPA committee chairmen and ALPA MEC Chairmen who crossed the Eastern picket line? If so, how does ALPA justify it? Does ALPA make exceptions if it is best for ALPA? How is that different than a person who does it for their best interests?

Joe, he has more than attoned for his past mistakes by his selfless service to this pilot group. I'm sure that you never made a mistake in the past that you would really rather forget, huh? Fact is, we all have. Some learn from those mistakes and go out of their way to make them right, and he is one of those.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

I ask if you have read the whole speech Bobby?

Yes I have, many times. I have also read the full set of his speeches (and drafts of speeches) before the socialists in the Bay area.

He states at the end, "It is not in the nature of present-day society for men to give like for like, the same for the same.

This is the socialist Jack London speaking. Mr. London was, by this time in his life, an ardent socialist. He believed that men needed to work together with all parties ending their “reach” for superiority.

Mr. London was a believer labor organizations but he had absolutely no respect for those individuals and groups that acted as you wrote (“If you happened to be alive back when that article was written, you might have survived the beatings”).

Further, Mr. London realized the quandary faced by workers. Are you a scab because you are a more productive worker or produce a higher quality product? Are you a scab because of good fortune, you were born without limitations (CP, blindness, etc.)? As I wrote before, Mr. London was well versed in the fact that, by economic definition, the scab was a “better” producer. You see in the end, Mr. London was not a fan of unions, but rather a fan of socialism.

My point has nothing to do with crossing picket lines (I am not certain how you came up with that from my writings). My point is this … Jack London, after many years before the mast, in the Yukon and as a merchant, came to a personal belief that modern (of his time) society should be one without classes and without a general “survival of the fittest” mentality. Mr. London came to regard all groups and persons who preyed upon others as less than desirable.

Please feel free to pm me if you would like to know more about Mr. London.

Bob

 

[Snapperhead]

My point has nothing to do with crossing picket lines (I am not certain how you came up with that from my writings). [/quote]

No, you are right. Your first reply was basically saying that being a scab is not that big of a deal.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Joe, he has more than attoned for his past mistakes by his selfless service to this pilot group. I'm sure that you never made a mistake in the past that you would really rather forget, huh? Fact is, we all have. Some learn from those mistakes and go out of their way to make them right, and he is one of those.

Just interviewed with another company and the first thing they wanted to talk about was a "past mistake I made." I don't think I am getting hired, so past mistakes are just that, part of us and we have to live with them whether you try to make up for them or not.

Dick

 

[BobbyBiplane]

My point has nothing to do with crossing picket lines (I am not certain how you came up with that from my writings). [/quote]

No, you are right. Your first reply was basically saying that being a scab is not that big of a deal.

No sir,

That is not the point. The point is, according to Mr. London we are all scabs.

Bob