Someone at UPS has crossed the line....I'm outta here!

[lifeguard]

Flybwoy,
You ruined what seemed like a pretty good argument with the name calling and emotion at the end. You may be entirly correct (I suspect you are), but even a new hire is entitled to his opinion. I'm sure your intent is only to educate, but if this is what the conversation has been going like on the UPS threads (and workplace) I don't blame the "youngsters" for sticking to their guns. Unity starts at the top.

I have no dog in this fight and am utterly unfamiliar with the details, I'm just here to support Capt Megadeath and her right to air her opinions without fear or intimidation.

AMEN.

 

[FN FAL]

BTW, I think FN was just screwin around with the grammar, he really meant he doesn't care what the cops think, reference an actual law, not what the cops said. Not a bad rule of thumb to go by..........FN fire away if I am mistaken.
.

Yea, I got no problem with that poster...but if you're going to tell me that cop said don't call a screen name a "so-and-so" on the internet, it's "game on" time. I thought "ding dong" was pretty innocuous of name to call him, especially since I don't know the guy or have anything against him. Now, as far as calling you a name 752, you've almost worked your way up to frowzy ne'er do well, so at least you've got that going for you. :laugh:

 

[Flybwoy]

Flybwoy,
You ruined what seemed like a pretty good argument with the name calling and emotion at the end. You may be entirly correct (I suspect you are), but even a new hire is entitled to his opinion. I'm sure your intent is only to educate, but if this is what the conversation has been going like on the UPS threads (and workplace) I don't blame the "youngsters" for sticking to their guns. Unity starts at the top.

I have no dog in this fight and am utterly unfamiliar with the details, I'm just here to support Capt Megadeath and her right to air her opinions without fear or intimidation.

OK maybe you are right! To much emotion in there? Well, I am an emotional kinda of person when it comes to foolishness being spouted off as fact or logic!

 

[Flybwoy]

1. First off fly, you are not going to get potential YES voters to vote no by calling them names, selfish, etc.

2. You expect people to have an open mind and not think of only themselves, yet you fail to open your own mind it seems. What I wish you would try to understand is that a lot of us "new guys" have just come from places that were much worse than UPS. If you have been here a long time, you have a different perspective than someone that just started here. For example, I have worked at a few shady operators and believe me, coming from where I came from, it just AIN'T THAT BAD here. I have also worked in a different career field and when I compare the two, there really isn't any comparison. If you compare the benefits, pay, etc. there just isn't any comparison. I would shoot myself in the head if I had to go do my other job full time for the rest of my life.


3. It's very hard for me to look at the state of the industry and not compare this TA to other professions and airlines. When I do, I come to the conclusion that it just ain't that bad. Are there things in it that are not perfect? Sure.....but nothing says that if we vote it down, the things we don't like will change. Can you guarantee that?

4. I agree with what you said about unity.

OK! I'll take that! However, I am not trying to gain potential yes voters. I am just simply pointing out ridiculous and illogical statements. Lil J reasoning is flawed and his explanation of it exibited arrogance to me unbecoming a new hire on property.
I haven't been at UPS that long myslef but I don't claim to know if this T/A is all great or all bad. I do know that there is a lot of bad in it and I am not going to display my arrogance and exclaim that I am going to vote for it just because it it GOOD FOR ME! That's the reason for my anger with this Lil J. Read his original post. He comes across as a ungrateful selfish individual just based on his statements. That is the reason for my harsh words. No one has to agree with me but my harsh words say how i feel. I am passionate person. I can say that I am voting no not because this TA is a bad deal for me but because its a bad deal for us all. As a new hire here, if i voted for this T/A it would selfishly put me ahead a bit, but that is not who I am as a person.

 

[720persecond]

OK! I'll take that! However, I am not trying to gain potential yes voters. I am just simply pointing out ridiculous and illogical statements. Lil J reasoning is flawed and his explanation of it exibited arrogance to me unbecoming a new hire on property.
I haven't been at UPS that long myslef but I don't claim to know if this T/A is all great or all bad. I do know that there is a lot of bad in it and I am not going to display my arrogance and exclaim that I am going to vote for it just because it it GOOD FOR ME! That's the reason for my anger with this Lil J. Read his original post. He comes across as a ungrateful selfish individual just based on his statements. That is the reason for my harsh words. No one has to agree with me but my harsh words say how i feel. I am passionate person. I can say that I am voting no not because this TA is a bad deal for me but because its a bad deal for us all. As a new hire here, if i voted for this T/A it would selfishly put me ahead a bit, but that is not who I am as a person.

Piloting is the best part-time job in the world.

 

[PCD]

You should stay.

Don't let some coward ruin your right to express your valued opinion. You have alot of people on this site that enjoy chatting with you and reading your comments. Don't leave because of that. Get your Union involved and the webmaster of this site to help track down the jerk who did this and then possibly get the authorities involved. The problem with computers is everyone has the balls to say something online they would never say to your face. Remember, if he tracked you down, then you should be able to do the same with some help.

 

[Below Mins]

Examples of concessionary

The TA is not a home run, but it's hardly concessionary. Ask the fellas at DAL, UAL, NWA, etc about concessionary contracts.

- like it or not, we will be the highest paid based on annual guarantee. Look at the charts.

- signing bonus concept sucks, but full retro would not swing my vote one way or the other either

- ANC domicile will open whether this TA passes or fails

- C and cross domicile reserve suck, but one less day of work, restrictions on 24/7 break on arrival, and intl rest requirements in domicile apply to reserves too (i.e. you could get 48 hrs off on company time in domicile after 120 hrs TAFB, etc), and reserves cannot be turned out unless they are in their normal on call period

- we could've had the 125% premium on high time lines already via the midterm agreement that we voted down in 2002.

- 3 hr pay penalty is our own fault. What's the difference between a Sun comm DH and operating a trip from SDF on Sun? Either way, you're still on the clock.

- extended DH's are not cool, but you will get 20 hrs rest before first live leg.

- double crewing? Seems industry standard to me.

- Open time ban language is what OUR attorney's recommend. Same with Intl Scope. I don't tell them how to try a case and they don't tell me how to fly an aircraft.

- A Plan has SS offset removed, B Plan increased to 12% of W-2

- SIK bank increase to 148 hrs. Ask anyone who has gone out on medical in Jan if they think this is a bad deal.

- 100% tickets domestically

- EDW lines reduced scheduled duty day, limited to 4 segments (to include ground shuttles), 10 night turns MAX per PP

- Peak scheduling rules reduced to 14 zulu days before Christmas versus the entire PP the way it is now

- Longer rest, reducible and non-reducible, both domestically and internationally

I would not call the above items concessionary. You said there are more bad things you could list. I agree. But there are more good things I could list too. All I want is an honest debate. Take a look at the good and bad... and then make your decision.

I'm still undecided. There are many things that can happen between now and 8/31 that could push my vote either way.